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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important.
But since you posted it ......
I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it.
Have a nice day. 
Mark
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:18 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not adding another step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more piece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of having to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve failure.
Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to make your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
[quote] On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:
Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important.
But since you posted it ......
I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it.
Have a nice day.
Mark
--
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:48 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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I'll put in what was my experience with an oil tank shut off valve. The system came off a military helicopter, and that I bought from Bill Blackwell. The system was wired to prevent starting the engine with the valve closed. There was also a green (valve open) and red (valve closed) lights on the panel. The system worked loyally for at least 1,900 hours. One day when getting ready to fly for a memorial service, we (I actually) got rushed. I "opened" the valve with the electrical switch and got a green light. Cleared the prop, and hit the starter button. The solenoid open and engine started. At this point I had a distraction (never mind what - my fault). As a result I did not notice that I had NO oil pressure after start. AAMOF I didn't look it until I notice my prop wasn't responding during the run up. To late. I surmise that the gears in the motor of the valve had sheared and did not open the valve. They were bad on inspection. I believe the wiring that was suppose to be the protection against starting the engine with the valve closed was actually hook into the bi directional motor in the unit and not the valve position itself.
Besides a lot guff from the wife and $**,***.oo, and another "learning experience", I now have a 100 hour since zero overhaul from Barrett that I am very please with. Plus the high compression pistons put out 388 hp which medicates a little of the bruised ego.
Yes I still have a oil tank shut off valve. However, I modified the old valve, so that I open and closed it manually with a push pull cable. Next to the knob are a red & green lights that are now actived by micro switches mount on the valve itself. This is the first stage of the mod since I will incorporate the solenoid wiring later. Right now I pay very close attention to what I am doing. Which is what one is supposed to do - - - - right?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/25/2016 2:18:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, f16viperdoc(at)me.com writes:
[quote][i]--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com>
Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not adding another step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more piece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of having to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve failure.
Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to make your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
[quote] On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important.
But since you posted it ......
I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it.
Have a nice day.
Mark
--
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jlpartington(at)reagan.co
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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Great lesson and story, thanks. I chose the manual valve, where did you mount your valve? Seems to be several options, or not.
My my other question was is it worth it. I think you answered that one
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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Mark,
Sorry, I did not finish my sentence. "Pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinders before starting it again to allow trapped oil to drain." Did not mean to imply leaving the cylinders open to ambient air without installing a desiccant filter that can be purchased from aircraft spruce. Was being called to the procedure suit as I was writing.
From personal experience when my YAK sits for over a month even with the sump drain open and draining into a plastic catch can oil still collects in the bottom three cylinders. Most commonly in #6 with it yielding the most volume when uncorked.
No I do not pour the oil collected from the sump back into the tank. I thought about it but after thinking more decided Phillips oil in the quart bottle offered more peace of mind than saving a few bucks on oil. Too high of a risk for contamination. To date have found one dead mouse, a dead starling, and one mouse swimming in my exhaust stack drain buckets. The hanger cat is hell on interlopers. No, she does not like MMO either.
Question. Do you leave your intake drain open when the aircraft sits? If so then is the system not open and exposed to ambient air?
We all want to prevent damage to our engines. Bottomline, nothing is perfect nor fool proof.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
[quote] On Feb 25, 2016, at 8:37 PM, jlpartington(at)reagan.com wrote:
Great lesson and story, thanks. I chose the manual valve, where did you mount your valve? Seems to be several options, or not.
My my other question was is it worth it. I think you answered that one
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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The valve is on the bottom of the oil tank. I had to remove the oil tank and weld up extra material so as to beef up the bottom. At the time we felt it was a little weak in that area.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/25/2016 11:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, f16viperdoc(at)me.com writes:
[quote]
Mark,
Sorry, I did not finish my sentence. "Pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinders before starting it again to allow trapped oil to drain." Did not mean to imply leaving the cylinders open to ambient air without installing a desiccant filter that can be purchased from aircraft spruce. Was being called to the procedure suit as I was writing.
From personal experience when my YAK sits for over a month even with the sump drain open and draining into a plastic catch can oil still collects in the bottom three cylinders. Most commonly in #6 with it yielding the most volume when uncorked.
No I do not pour the oil collected from the sump back into the tank. I thought about it but after thinking more decided Phillips oil in the quart bottle offered more peace of mind than saving a few bucks on oil. Too high of a risk for contamination. To date have found one dead mouse, a dead starling, and one mouse swimming in my exhaust stack drain buckets. The hanger cat is hell on interlopers. No, she does not like MMO either.
Question. Do you leave your intake drain open when the aircraft sits? If so then is the system not open and exposed to ambient air?
We all want to prevent damage to our engines. Bottomline, nothing is perfect nor fool proof.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 25, 2016, at 8:37 PM, jlpartington(at)reagan.com (jlpartington(at)reagan.com) wrote:
[quote]
Great lesson and story, thanks. I chose the manual valve, where did you mount your valve? Seems to be several options, or not.
My my other question was is it worth it. I think you answered that one
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)
Sent: Thursday, 25 February, 2016 5:47pm
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve
I'll put in what was my experience with an oil tank shut off valve. The system came off a military helicopter, and that I bought from Bill Blackwell. The system was wired to prevent starting the engine with the valve closed. There was also a green (valve open) and red (valve closed) lights on the panel. The system worked loyally for at least 1,900 hours. One day when getting ready to fly for a memorial service, we (I actually) got rushed. I "opened" the valve with the electrical switch and got a green light. Cleared the prop, and hit the starter button. The solenoid open and engine started. At this point I had a distraction (never mind what - my fault). As a result I did not notice that I had NO oil pressure after start. AAMOF I didn't look it until I notice my prop wasn't responding during the run up. To late. I surmise that the gears in the motor of the valve had sheared and did not open the valve. They were bad on inspection. I believe the wiring that was suppose to be the protection against starting the engine with the valve closed was actually hook into the bi directional motor in the unit and not the valve position itself.
Besides a lot guff from the wife and $**,***.oo, and another "learning experience", I now have a 100 hour since zero overhaul from Barrett that I am very please with. Plus the high compression pistons put out 388 hp which medicates a little of the bruised ego.
Yes I still have a oil tank shut off valve. However, I modified the old valve, so that I open and closed it manually with a push pull cable. Next to the knob are a red & green lights that are now actived by micro switches mount on the valve itself. This is the first stage of the mod since I will incorporate the solenoid wiring later. Right now I pay very close attention to what I am doing. Which is what one is supposed to do - - - - right?
[i]Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/25/2016 2:18:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com) writes:
[quote][i]--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>
Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not adding another step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more piece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of having to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve failure.
Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to make your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
[quote] On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important.
But since you posted it ......
I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it.
Have a nice day.
Mark
--
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jlpartington(at)reagan.co
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:48 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve |
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my concern as well, thanks
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