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Filtered Air Box options

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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door



Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these options, and the reasons why?



Regards 

Carlos

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

Bypass door - yes.  I view this as required.  I have red handle pull cable on the panel to open the door.  Assume the door will not go all the way shut if you push the handle back in so if you pull it, reset is on the ground.



Drain tube - no.  While at annual I might find some fuel residue in the bottom of the air box I do not believe there is enough fuel dripping down into the filter to warrant a drain tube.



Carl



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 4, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

 

 

 

 In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door

 

 Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these options, and the reasons why?

 

 Regards 

 Carlos

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

I would certainly not consider the filter bypass door as optional. The alternate air door would be optional in my book, but not the filter bypass. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 4, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

 

 

 

 In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door

 

 Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these options, and the reasons why?

 

 Regards 

 Carlos

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:33 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

Yes

Yes



Alternate source of induction is always a welcome option should it be needed. 



Fuel drain was no big deal to add, so I can't hurt to let it out. 



The Alt air door was the most difficult to install but it's not bad either.   I'd just be certain that you know your cable route to it so can optimize your pivot point location.  



I'd also consider pro-sealing an aluminum rub plate in the bottom of the box between the rubber filter edge and fiberglass.  



I've seen too many filters rub right through the glass.   We had a 7A the other day that rubbed all the way through on about 80% of the circumference of the filter. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 4, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

 

 

 

 In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door

 

 Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these options, and the reasons why?

 

 Regards 

 Carlos

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

On Dec 4, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'd also consider pro-sealing an aluminum rub plate in the bottom of the box between the rubber filter edge and fiberglass.  

	
If you don't do this in the beginning, you eventually will need to. However, I use some RTV and Pop rivets to hold it on place (rivets outside the filter), and the filter bypass door also attaches to the plate inside the filter. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I've seen too many filters rub right through the glass.   We had a 7A the other day that rubbed all the way through on about 80% of the circumference of the filter. 	
I have seen this on numerous occasions as well. I think the worse I've seen was about 80% of the way around as well, filter almost falling out. We had to add the plate and glass the outside both to fix it. It really is quite easy to add. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Sent from my iPad

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

A drain hole is needed, whether or not you use a tube.  Otherwise you will have fuel pooled in there with no way to drain out from either overpriming or trying to start a hot engine.

grumpy

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 4, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 Bypass door - yes.  I view this as required.  I have red handle pull cable on the panel to open the door.  Assume the door will not go all the way shut if you push the handle back in so if you pull it, reset is on the ground.

 Drain tube - no.  While at annual I might find some fuel residue in the bottom of the air box I do not believe there is enough fuel dripping down into the filter to warrant a drain tube.

 Carl

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

> - the FAB box drain tube, and

> - the Filter Bypass door

> 

> Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these options, and the reasons why?

> 

> Regards 

> Carlos

> 

> 

> 

>

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:57 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

Like Jesse said - don't even think about using the Van's air box without a piece of 0.032" or so aluminum in the bottom that extends to the edge of the filter.   While you are at it, add four pieced of light aluminum angle (0.025") to the plate to hold the air filter shape.  Bend the aluminum to conform to the inside of the filter.  Engine vibration tends to change cylindrical filter to conical - and in the process the filter tends to loose the seal with the top of the air box.  I did this on an 8a and a 10 and have no further problems.

I sent a note to Van's recommending they add the aluminum plate to the air box kit.  They agreed with customers adding the plate, but had no response on modifying the kit.

Carl



On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:22 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Dec 4, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'd also consider pro-sealing an aluminum rub plate in the bottom of the box between the rubber filter edge and fiberglass.  

	
If you don't do this in the beginning, you eventually will need to. However, I use some RTV and Pop rivets to hold it on place (rivets outside the filter), and the filter bypass door also attaches to the plate inside the filter. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I've seen too many filters rub right through the glass.   We had a 7A the other day that rubbed all the way through on about 80% of the circumference of the filter. 	
I have seen this on numerous occasions as well. I think the worse I've seen was about 80% of the way around as well, filter almost falling out. We had to add the plate and glass the outside both to fix it. It really is quite easy to add. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Sent from my iPad

dan(at)syz.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:00 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 2016-Dec-04, at 5:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

 

 

 

 In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door


	


I put in both myself, but with the filter bypass door in place, I can't imagine how the drain tube would ever get used.  Any fuel that ends up at the bottom of the FAB box is just going to leak around the edges of the bypass door, since it's hardly hermetically sealed.



Dan

---

Dan Charrois

President, Syzygy Research & Technology

Phone: 780-961-2213

Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Filtered Air Box options

I saw an RV-10 once that had an induction fire after a botched hot start. It didn't look pretty. He didn't have the drain tube but installed one after that.



Lenny

 	  trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: 	
		  In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door



Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these options, and the reasons why?



Regards 

Carlos

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:37 am Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

I have studied the question quite a bit. Quite frankly I think the bypass door is a bad design and doesn't accomplish what it should. There is no need to bypass a round filter.

Given that the air filter is an automotive round design, the physics argue against it ever getting blocked by impact icing or any other type like snow, frost, dust, you name it. Nothing but vapor can make the 180 degree turn to hit the backside of the filter. 

On the other hand there is some small risk that snow or ice could block the air intake from the outside. That could be addressed by installing the carb heat fitting at the front of the snorkel that is designed for carbureted engines. Whether you hooked it up to heat or not, it would provide intake air in the unlikely event that the inlet was blocked, and would be able to be openned and closed. And you would always have filtered air.

I did install the drain, because I didn't do the bypass door. I'm still thinking about the carb heat door.

Kelly

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:59 PM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com (dan(at)syz.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com (dan(at)syz.com)>

 > On 2016-Dec-04, at 5:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

 >

 > In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

 >  - the FAB box drain tube, and

 >  - the Filter Bypass door

 I put in both myself, but with the filter bypass door in place, I can't imagine how the drain tube would ever get used.  Any fuel that ends up at the bottom of the FAB box is just going to leak around the edges of the bypass door, since it's hardly hermetically sealed.

 Dan

 ---

 Dan Charrois

 President, Syzygy Research & Technology

 Phone: [url=tel:780-961-2213]780-961-2213[/url]

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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:58 am Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

Thanks to all who responded.



Phillip



Do you have any photo of the rub plate you are recommending?



Best

Carlos 

-----Mensagem original-----

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Phillip Perry

Enviada: Monday, December 5, 2016 1:33 AM

Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Assunto: Re: Filtered Air Box options






Yes

Yes



Alternate source of induction is always a welcome option should it be

needed. 



Fuel drain was no big deal to add, so I can't hurt to let it out. 



The Alt air door was the most difficult to install but it's not bad either.

I'd just be certain that you know your cable route to it so can optimize

your pivot point location.  



I'd also consider pro-sealing an aluminum rub plate in the bottom of the box

between the rubber filter edge and fiberglass.  



I've seen too many filters rub right through the glass.   We had a 7A the

other day that rubbed all the way through on about 80% of the circumference

of the filter. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 4, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

 

 

 

 In the Van's manual, there are 2 things that are optional :

  - the FAB box drain tube, and

  - the Filter Bypass door

 

 Can you please tell if you chose, or not, to install both or any of these

options, and the reasons why?
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Regards

 Carlos

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box options

I don't have a good photo on my phone apparently.  



So I just took this one down the snout.   I used .063 because I wanted something really firm to suck up tight against the filter.  Primarily to reduce the likely hood of deformation. 



Mine is pro-sealed in and looks like a donut.   The filter bypass sits in the middle of the donut hole. 



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Dec 5, 2016, at 8:57 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks to all who responded.

 

 Phillip

 

 Do you have any photo of the rub plate you are recommending?

 

 Best

 Carlos 

 

 

 -----Mensagem original-----

 De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Phillip Perry

 Enviada: Monday, December 5, 2016 1:33 AM

 Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Assunto: Re: Filtered Air Box options

 

 

 

 Yes

 Yes

 

 Alternate source of induction is always a welcome option should it be

 needed. 

 

 Fuel drain was no big deal to add, so I can't hurt to let it out. 

 

 The Alt air door was the most difficult to install but it's not bad either

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