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GPS Antenna

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vernon.franklin(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:49 am Post subject: GPS Antenna

I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat.



I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible.



Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors?  Will I get signal through the cabin top?



-- 

Vernon Franklin

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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: GPS Antenna

GTN-650 and Dynon GPS antennas on the glare shield, one on each side.  Work perfectly.  I wrap the white GTN-650 antenna with some dark cloth so that it does not reflect on the glass.  No reason for them to not work in an overhead console but I vetoed such a console as an unneeded waste of headroom.  Others may have different opinions.

 

I share your concern with GPS antennas mounted under the cowl.

 

Carl

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Franklin

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:48 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: GPS Antenna



 

I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat.



I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible.

 



Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors?  Will I get signal through the cabin top?



 



-- 

Vernon Franklin

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

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rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: GPS Antenna

I’ve taken considerable data for under cowl temperatures through all phases  of flight and shut-down with a data logger.    For the upper  portion of the low pressure side of the cowling on the RV-10 the temperature is  about 10 C rise over ambient for all phases except for shut down.  Upon  shut down the temperature rises to about +40 C rise for about 8 minutes followed  by about a cool down back to ambient.    For electronic systems  this is not much of a thermal burden.      

 That said,   when I built my –10 I didn’t have the data for under  cowl temperatures so instead I investigated GPS signal strength with the  antennas mounted under the cabin top and hidden by my overhead  console.      I have dual garmin 430 W navigators so I  took data for satellite received signal strength with one antenna positioned in  the cabin looking up through the cabin top and one antenna outside the aircraft  with an unobstructed view of the sky.     There was  absolutely no difference between the two systems.    They both  had the same number of satellites received and at the same signal  level.   

 After five years of flying I’m totally satisfied that those GPS hockey puck  antennas work perfectly well mounted inside the cabin looking up through the  fiberglass.

  

 Bob Newman

 N541RV

 www.tcwtech.com

  

  

   From: Vernon Franklin (vernon.franklin(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:47 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: GPS Antenna

  



   I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to  heat.



 I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of  site if possible.  

 Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have  Geoff's), between the doors?  Will I get signal through the cabin  top?



  

-- 

 Vernon  Franklin

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: Re: GPS Antenna

I logged similar temps under the cowling. Probably not an issue for antennas, but those that decide to install lithium batteries there take note of those numbers. My temps also went up to around the same numbers during runup after a few minutes of taxiing around.



My glareshield is two-component foam between two thin layers of fiberglass wrapped in black ultraleather. I carved out the foam from the bottom and put my WxWorx XM antenna puck there. It's not visible at all and it works great. It would most likely work fine with a GPS antenna too.



Lenny



 	  rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: 	
		  I’ve taken considerable data for under cowl temperatures through all phases  of flight and shut-down with a data logger.    For the upper  portion of the low pressure side of the cowling on the RV-10 the temperature is  about 10 C rise over ambient for all phases except for shut down.  Upon  shut down the temperature rises to about +40 C rise for about 8 minutes followed  by about a cool down back to ambient.    For electronic systems  this is not much of a thermal burden.      

 That said,   when I built my –10 I didn’t have the data for under  cowl temperatures so instead I investigated GPS signal strength with the  antennas mounted under the cabin top and hidden by my overhead  console.      I have dual garmin 430 W navigators so I  took data for satellite received signal strength with one antenna positioned in  the cabin looking up through the cabin top and one antenna outside the aircraft  with an unobstructed view of the sky.     There was  absolutely no difference between the two systems.    They both  had the same number of satellites received and at the same signal  level.   

 After five years of flying I’m totally satisfied that those GPS hockey puck  antennas work perfectly well mounted inside the cabin looking up through the  fiberglass.

  

 Bob Newman

 N541RV

 www.tcwtech.com

  

  

   From: Vernon Franklin (vernon.franklin(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:47 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: GPS Antenna

  



   I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to  heat.



 I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of  site if possible.  

 Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have  Geoff's), between the doors?  Will I get signal through the cabin  top?



  

-- 

 Vernon  Franklin

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

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_________________
Lenny Iszak
Palm City, FL
2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 500 hrs

rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: Re: GPS Antenna

I have an  under cowl gps antenna mounted on a bracket from engine mount to firewall on my rv6 with 550 hours and still going with no dropouts ever had.



On the 10 I'm building I've put two gps antennae  in the overhead one in each bay-- expecting similar results.

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_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

fgcobble(at)roadrunner.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: GPS Antenna

just getting around to installing my G3X system in RV10 - given your study where do you recommend installing?  1) Mounted under fiberglass canopy - i assume over pilot and copilots heads or 2) under engine cowling?   My understanding is the typical installation is outside on roof of canopy near the front.  Thx for feedback

---- Bob-tcw <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I’ve taken considerable data for under cowl temperatures through all phases of flight and shut-down with a data logger.    For the upper portion of the low pressure side of the cowling on the RV-10 the temperature is about 10 C rise over ambient for all phases except for shut down.  Upon shut down the temperature rises to about +40 C rise for about 8 minutes followed by about a cool down back to ambient.    For electronic systems this is not much of a thermal burden.      

 That said,   when I built my –10 I didn’t have the data for under cowl temperatures so instead I investigated GPS signal strength with the antennas mounted under the cabin top and hidden by my overhead console.      I have dual garmin 430 W navigators so I took data for satellite received signal strength with one antenna positioned in the cabin looking up through the cabin top and one antenna outside the aircraft with an unobstructed view of the sky.     There was absolutely no difference between the two systems.    They both had the same number of satellites received and at the same signal level.   

 After five years of flying I’m totally satisfied that those GPS hockey puck antennas work perfectly well mounted inside the cabin looking up through the fiberglass.

 

 Bob Newman

 N541RV

 www.tcwtech.com

 

 From: Vernon Franklin 

 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:47 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Subject: GPS Antenna

 

 I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat.

 

 I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible.

 

 

 Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors?  Will I get signal through the cabin top?

 

 

 -- 

 

 Vernon Franklin

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: GPS Antenna

The antenna for my 420W is external, on top of the tailcone, about 2 feet behind the baggage area bulkhead. Partly because, at the time, Garmin specified a certain minimum insertion loss (they had a mismatch in designed and actual antenna sensitivities after outsourcing the antenna). The loss could be introduced with an attenuator, or just a specified length of coax.

Two things that have never been clear to me: (1) Do these antennas require a ground plane?, and (2) are they technically illegal for IFR use if not installed per the TSO'd documentation (which always shows them external)?

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_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

dan(at)syz.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:21 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 2017-Feb-21, at 9:47 AM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat.

 I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible.

 

 Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors?  Will I get signal through the cabin top?


	


I have two GPS antennas - one for a GTN 650 mounted externally above the cabin, and a backup "hockey puck" style antenna exactly where you mentioned (in the Aerosport Products console) that gets its signal through the cabin top fibreglass.  Both work great - actually, the hockey puck antenna usually gets a signal quicker than the external GTN 650 antenna (though that's quite possibly because it isn't as critical as to how reliable a signal it gets, as long as it gets something within reason - the GTN 650 needs to have a reliable signal before it will even begin to deliver a position).



If you have the overhead console anyway, as I do, I really can't see a reason not to put it there - it can't be seen, and at least in my case, works great.



Dan

---

Dan Charrois

President, Syzygy Research & Technology

Phone: 780-961-2213

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