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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:55 am Post subject: Polyester cloth |
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To badly misquote Gertrude Stein, polyester is polyester is polyester. If you have the same weight fabric regardless of trade names (like Dacron for instance) and it's 100% polyester, its physical characteristics are going to be the same. Where you run into trouble is if any additives, called sizings, are put on the fabric. The first aircraft I covered was an Easyriser back in the mid seventies. Nitrate and butyrate dope over polyester dress sheathing. Worked great but I had to recover one wing and the kit didn't have any spare fabric so I went to the nearest fabric store with a sample. Which is where I learned about dress sheathing. I went home, covered the wing and finished it and moved on. Later I told a buddy this story when he was in need of fabric for his Catto wing project. He went to a different fabric store and the results were terrible. Which is where I learned about sizings. Seems that some manufacturers add a sizing containing silicone. Nothing sticks to it, which is great for slips and petty coats but not so much if you want to add further coatings on top of it. The same applies if you use it for peel ply. The silicone migrates to the composite and you're done for.
That's the caveat you should beware of if you go shopping for polyester. Spruce and Wicks have peel ply that is sizing free, the same as Polyfiber, it just doesn't have the stamp.
Rick Girard
--
“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.” Groucho Marx
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: Polyester cloth |
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I may have been given incorrect info many years ago. Never did the research on it. I was informed the difference between polyester Dacron for aircraft and for nurses' uniforms was:
-Fabric for aircraft, both certified and uncertified was not preshrunk.
-Fabric for uniforms/clothing was preshrunk.
I was also told that a lubricate was applied to the threads of polyester Dacron during the weaving process to prevent the threads from burning. Threads are extremely small and weaving is extremely tight.
I remember the problems I encountered with Stitts or Polyfiber HS90X. Very light weight, but loaded with lubricant. Unknown to me I started shooting dope and have never seen so many fish eyes. The fabric folks told me I needed to scrub the fabric with MEK prior to painting. This lightweight fabric was difficult to work with and vulnerable to punctures during covering. After that one time with HS90X I went back to D-103. The difference in weight was negligible but far greater durability. I can deal with a little extra weight, but I need durability. 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 8:55 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Polyester cloth
To badly misquote Gertrude Stein, polyester is polyester is polyester. If you have the same weight fabric regardless of trade names (like Dacron for instance) and it's 100% polyester, its physical characteristics are going to be the same. Where you run into trouble is if any additives, called sizings, are put on the fabric.
The first aircraft I covered was an Easyriser back in the mid seventies. Nitrate and butyrate dope over polyester dress sheathing. Worked great but I had to recover one wing and the kit didn't have any spare fabric so I went to the nearest fabric store with a sample. Which is where I learned about dress sheathing. I went home, covered the wing and finished it and moved on. Later I told a buddy this story when he was in need of fabric for his Catto wing project. He went to a different fabric store and the results were terrible. Which is where I learned about sizings. Seems that some manufacturers add a sizing containing silicone. Nothing sticks to it, which is great for slips and petty coats but not so much if you want to add further coatings on top of it. The same applies if you use it for peel ply. The silicone migrates to the composite and you're done for.
That's the caveat you should beware of if you go shopping for polyester. Spruce and Wicks have peel ply that is sizing free, the same as Polyfiber, it just doesn't have the stamp.
Rick Girard
-- “Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.” Groucho Marx
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Polyester cloth |
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Thanks Rick - good memories. I also recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk.
Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as stable as you could ask for.
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: Polyester cloth |
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I really miss Chuck Slusarczyk. Never got to fly with him, and I wasn't around the scene in the early UL days, but I met him through the old "usenet" internet forums, and then met him in person once or twice. Great guy, big heart. A model airplane builder and free flighter to boot 
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 4/12/17, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Polyester cloth
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017, 2:33 PM
Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Thanks Rick - good memories. I also
recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I
got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed
to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model
airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and
clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue
dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it
and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk.
Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is
on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if
I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it
would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and
told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper
angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust
line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as
stable as you could ask for.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is
wonderful.
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