tc1917(at)bellsouth.net
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 Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:16 am Post subject: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 06/13/17 |
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Yes. That is just for the slingshot. The mounts were at wrong angle. Needs to raise up rear mount one and three quarters to one and seven eights
Sent from my iPhone
[quote] On Jun 14, 2017, at 2:04 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
*
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Kolb-List Digest Archive
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Total Messages Posted Tue 06/13/17: 17
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Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:48 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (B Young)
2. 08:18 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Ralph B)
3. 08:18 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Stuart Harner)
4. 10:04 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (B Young)
5. 12:55 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Ralph B)
6. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
7. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (John Hauck)
8. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
9. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (John Hauck)
10. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
11. 04:22 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
12. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Rick Neilsen)
13. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Charlie England)
14. 07:40 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Rick Neilsen)
15. 07:46 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Richard Pike)
16. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (John Hauck)
17. 08:05 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Ralph B)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 06:48:51 AM PST US
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Kolbers,,,,,, I remember a few years back that someone mentioned that they
trimmed a Kolb by adjusting the thrust line of the engine by raising or
lowering the front or back of the motor mounts. I haven't found the
correct search term to find it in the archives... Is there anyone that is
still on the list who can shed some light?
Boyd mkiii Utah
> On Jun 12, 2017 2:34 PM, "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS 
>
> I have a mark III classic w 912 uls Acting odd during taxi needs lots of
> left rudder to keep on the runway with tail on and off the ground and while
> flying needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let go of the
> controls during straight and level flight the plane wants to roll to the
> left has anyone had similar experiences and or has anybody had any luck
> with adjusting engine mounts changing the thrust angle to help with aileron
> trim etc
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
>
>
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 08:18:28 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
From: "Ralph B" <rstar447(at)gmail.com>
Here are pictures of the Kolb U-joint adjust for roll control. Put washers in on
top or bottom for whichever the way you want to correct the roll.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000+ hours
28 years flying it
Kolbra 912ULS
N20386
500 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470049#470049
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_u_joint__847.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_adjust__128.jpg
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 08:18:52 AM PST US
From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>
Subject: RE: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Jack Hart has a lot of info about this on a Firefly.
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly56.html
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark
III clasic
Kolbers,,,,,, I remember a few years back that someone mentioned that
they trimmed a Kolb by adjusting the thrust line of the engine by
raising or lowering the front or back of the motor mounts. I haven't
found the correct search term to find it in the archives... Is there
anyone that is still on the list who can shed some light?
Boyd mkiii Utah
On Jun 12, 2017 2:34 PM, "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com> wrote:
PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS
I have a mark III classic w 912 uls Acting odd during taxi needs lots of
left rudder to keep on the runway with tail on and off the ground and
while flying needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let
go of the controls during straight and level flight the plane wants to
roll to the left has anyone had similar experiences and or has anybody
had any luck with adjusting engine mounts changing the thrust angle to
help with aileron trim etc
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 10:04:53 AM PST US
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Stewart, thanks, that link was exactly what I was looking for...
Boyd Young
Do not archive.
> On Jun 13, 2017 9:21 AM, "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> wrote:
>
> Jack Hart has a lot of info about this on a Firefly.
>
>
> http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly56.html
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *B Young
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:49 AM
> *To:* Kolb List
> *Subject:* Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me
> Mark III clasic
>
>
> Kolbers,,,,,, I remember a few years back that someone mentioned that
> they trimmed a Kolb by adjusting the thrust line of the engine by raising
> or lowering the front or back of the motor mounts. I haven't found the
> correct search term to find it in the archives... Is there anyone that is
> still on the list who can shed some light?
>
> Boyd mkiii Utah
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2017 2:34 PM, "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS
>
> I have a mark III classic w 912 uls Acting odd during taxi needs lots of
> left rudder to keep on the runway with tail on and off the ground and while
> flying needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let go of the
> controls during straight and level flight the plane wants to roll to the
> left has anyone had similar experiences and or has anybody had any luck
> with adjusting engine mounts changing the thrust angle to help with aileron
> trim etc
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 12:55:29 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
From: "Ralph B" <rstar447(at)gmail.com>
Along with the U-joints, there is also the offset fin. This was installed by the
builder and I don't see how I would do without it. I've also included a picture
of the adjustable rudder trim tab. Between the U-joints, offset fin, and rudder
trim tab, the Kolbra can fly hands off in calm air. For pitch trim, the
builder installed a motorized bungee windup to move the stick forward or aft.
It is controlled with a toggle switch for nose up or down trim.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470058#470058
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_tab__102.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/offset_4__316.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/offset_1__128.jpg
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 02:04:10 PM PST US
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III
clasic
One or more Kolbers has pointed to the flaps as a possible reason for the problems
we had. This may be the problem... does the following make sense to the experienced
Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not built perfectly straight, and it wanted to
roll one way (like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable" U-joint on one side of the fuselage on this
aircraft, hoping to trim out the problem that way.
The same owner, or perhaps a subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing
flaps a little more up or down, still trying to solve the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged directly to the aileron torque tubes, adjusting
the flap will have an unfortunate side effect of inducing different forces on
the ailerons as well.
If one flap has been adjusted downward (attempt to trim airplane to fly straight),
then when the stick is moved in that direction the pilot has to use more force,
because the pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the airstream more than
he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint and replaced it with the standard U-joint,
on advice from the factory. This may have also taken out HALF of the previous
corrective efforts to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you? Have any of you seen Kolbs where the owner
tried to adjust the flaps in order to correct a wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 03:18:53 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III
clasic
If the aircraft was mine and I had all those problems, I'd start from scratch,
insure the aircraft was built correctly, had not been modified (especially the
control system), and everything was rigged as specified in the plans and instructions.
I would insure I was starting my journey from a standard beginning.
Once I got it back to standard configuration, then I would test fly it, insuring
I did the test flight alone, not with a passenger on board. If I wasn't an
experienced MKIII pilot, I'd find one that was to do my test flying. He would
know what to expect from the MKIII in flight.
If I still encountered the same problems, I'd put the standard (large) rudder trim
tab on temporarily. It can be attached with Gorilla Tape to test fly. Sometimes
the rudder trim tab will correct adverse roll problems, when your mind
is telling you that it is aileron or wing incidence problems.
Always change only one thing at a time. After each change, test fly to see what
that change has affected.
I would not change thrust line in any way, unless it has been modified. Then I
would change it back to what it should be per the instructions. The thrust lines
on Kolb aircraft, all models, are correct the way they were designed and
fabricated. Incorrect thrust lines would not affect the aircrafts flight characteristic
as described unless you mounted the engine backwards.
I would not try to trim the aircraft with flap(s).
Aileron trim tabs are effective for slight roll problems, not the problems you
all describe.
I test flew the latest model MKIII Extra. It demonstrated similar characteristics.
Wanted to fly straight if it was allowed to roll 10 to 15 degrees to the
right. Was a terrible, unnatural feeling. Took a Hell of a lot of left stick
to fly it straight and level, but was happy flying rolled right. This flight
was without a rudder trim tab. We installed the large rudder trim tab, test
flew, and the problem was gone. Hard for me to grasp, but it worked.
These are my thoughts and experiences. It is the way I would do it. I am not
recommending anyone else try this at home.
John h
Fayetteville, NC
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