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Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

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pilot623(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:11 am Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

 

Jim

N623JF

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ghf4986(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

Jim,



A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and they recommend a certain micron size.  Unfortunately i can not tell you what it is from memory.  



I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special check valve since it is low pressure.



I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after mounting the manifold in the engine compartment.  From the manifold and jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run the return  to the tank.



The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.



Dennis Adams 



Sent from an IPad 



On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Since the fly-in, Iâ€™ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiserâ€™s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks

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rwilhelm(at)dc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

That is exactly what I did when I built mine 20 years ago, Jim. At that time there were some Facet pumps that could fail closed. Not so any more with the newer ones. So they say.

I installed a very low crack pressure check valve in the circuit you described. 3/8 tube size. I had one from when I worked for a company that made them. I am sure you can buy one from ebay. Make sure it is aircraft and not auto or industrial. They donâ€™t make them with very low crack pressure (8 â€œ water max) and zero leakage in the check direction.

 

Ray

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jim Fillman (pilot623(at)gmail.com)

Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:10 PM

To: Pulsar-Aviators(at)yahoogroups.com (Pulsar-Aviators(at)yahoogroups.com); pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump



 

Since the fly-in, Iâ€™ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiserâ€™s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

 

Jim

N623JF

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paqs345(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass.



One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank.

Sonja

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Since the fly-in, Iâ€™ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiserâ€™s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

Â 

Jim

N623JF

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FoesFlyDennis

Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Mesa, Arizona, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.



On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345(at)gmail.com (paqs345(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass.



One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank.

Sonja

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Since the fly-in, Iâ€™ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiserâ€™s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

Â 

Jim

N623JF

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_________________
2012 Pulsar III - Jabiru 2200A - N852LW
DennisTubbs7@gmail.com
Mesa, Arizona

ghf4986(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

Its vapor pressure, no pressure, no vapor!



Sent from an IPad 



On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Dennis Tubbs <dennistubbs7(at)gmail.com (dennistubbs7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.



On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345(at)gmail.com (paqs345(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass.



One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank.

Sonja

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Since the fly-in, Iâ€™ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiserâ€™s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

 

Jim

N623JF

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rwilhelm25(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:48 pm Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

Please be advised that the crack pressure of the ASP check valve is not listed. If it is not less then 8 inches of water, do not use it. The high crack pressure of typical Check Valve will cause the engine driven pump to vapor lock the first time it is needed at high temps and altitude. Especially with auto gas. You do not want the pump to have to suck against the typical 2 psi crack pressure. Neither do you want it to leak at all in normal operation. It is like your heart with a very bad murmur. The Facet pump will just be putting the fuel back to its own inlet.

 

Ray

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dennis Adams (ghf4986(at)gmail.com)

Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:36 PM

To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump



 

Jim,

 



A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and they recommend a certain micron size.  Unfortunately i can not tell you what it is from memory.  



 



I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special check valve since it is low pressure.



 



I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after mounting the manifold in the engine compartment.  From the manifold and jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run the return  to the tank.



 



The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.



 



Dennis Adams 

Sent from an IPad 

On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



Since the fly-in, Iâ€™ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiserâ€™s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

 

Jim

N623JF

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w7ikt(at)fly-web.us
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

I have seen diagrams just like you describe.  That is the way I would do 

it if i built or owned another low wing.

On 10/03/2017 02:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with 

 a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine


	


-- 

God Bless,

Bob W7IKT & Carol N5CBQ HeiserI

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