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bearhawklife

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:56 am Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that may have already been covered that I have yet to find...



I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring.  All have been very helpful and I have learned much.  



I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540.  With the help of Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual alternator single battery set up.  From Bob's book, I have selected to follow the Z12M diagram (attached) as a guide.  



Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just need to "see it".  For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panel…. I’m not sure what that looks like?  Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe?  Other connections are difficult to imagine as well.  I appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings.  Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual connections.



Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google “RV-7 builders log” for various builders pics.  Which I have but still coming up short.

 

Thanks for your help!

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_________________
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

Last edited by bearhawklife on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:31 am Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

Hi Rob and welcome! 

There are no "dumb questions " here!

Best...Bob Verwey



082 331 2727

[img]https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5d7rgAInTuTUUZsUjY4QmJsdVU&revid=0B5d7rgAInTuTdDJDaXRFZVh3b3lMa3FWL0s3MFdzc01YRlNvPQ[/img]



On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 14:03, bearhawklife <rob(at)robcaldwell.net (rob(at)robcaldwell.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net (rob(at)robcaldwell.net)>

 

 This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that may have already been covered that I have yet to find..

 

 I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring.  All have been very helpful and I have learned much.  

 

 I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540.  With the help of Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual alternator single battery set up.  From Bob's book, I have selected to follow the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.  

 

 Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just need to "see it".  For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panel…. I’m not sure what that looks like?  Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe?  Other connections are difficult to imagine as well.  I appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings.  Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual connections.

 

 Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google “RV-7 builders log” for various builders pics.  Which I have but still coming up short.

 

 Thanks for your help!

 

 --------

 Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491694#491694

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/z12m_107.pdf

 

 

 

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:37 am Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

I don't see your question as "dumb" at all. If you can find pictures of 

firewall on most aircraft, you can see a lot of the wiring of major 

components, such as starter relay, shunt, and so forth. I don't know if 

you are wanting to see what the connectors look like....mostly ring 

terminals of various sizes and "fast-on" connectors for most ground 

connections. It is relatively common to run main positive battery lead 

from the master solenoid to the starter solenoid, and then connect the 

main bus to that same terminal. Also relatively common to use the 

airframe (tube structure in your case) for grounding large current 

items, while running all low current (avionic item) grounds to a single 

point. You will find that a lot of type certificated aircraft follow 

those methods, and many shops will let you eyeball the firewall forward 

on aircraft that they have removed cowling. Most of the connections 

other than avionics bus and lighting are in the firewall forward area.

Some aircraft, like composite, lacking metal tube frame or all metal 

skin have to do things differently.

You might find additional help if you can describe what mission factors 

led to your dual alternator, single battery configuration.



Kelly



On 10/9/2019 4:56 AM, bearhawklife wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that may have already been covered that I have yet to find...

 

 I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring.  All have been very helpful and I have learned much.

 

 I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540.  With the help of Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual alternator single battery set up.  From Bob's book, I have selected to follow the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.

 

 Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just need to "see it".  For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panelâ€¦. Iâ€™m not sure what that looks like?  Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe?  Other connections are difficult to imagine as well.  I appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings.  Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual connections.

 

 Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google â€œRV-7 builders logâ€ for various builders pics.  Which I have but still coming up short.

   

 Thanks for your help!

 

 --------

 Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491694#491694

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/z12m_107.pdf

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

bearhawklife

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

 	  Kellym wrote: 	
		  .......

You might find additional help if you can describe what mission factors 

led to your dual alternator, single battery configuration.



Kelly

	


My ignition system will be one SureFly EI and one Slick mag.  I was originally thinking dual Light Speed EI.  But was turned off after understanding the complexity (just my impression) of all the ancillary and satellite components and mounting locations (additional battery, coil packs, modules on the cold side of the firewall, with cooling fans, etc).  SureFly came out with their 6 cylinder mag replacement version recently.  This immediately became the answer for me.  I'm not building a race plane, just wanted the improved performance of EI.  SureFly requires power from the battery. All of this drove my decision for the dual alternator single battery setup.   I am using B&C's BC460-H 60amp (main) and BC410-H 20-30amp (b/u) alternators.  SkyTec 149NL Starter.

_________________
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

[img]cid:part1.6A3C4AED.85AE870C(at)gmx.net[/img]

     

     Rob hard to find some pictures from 16 years ago  Here you see the     two fuseblocks of main and essential bus, if you go to the right you     see on the FW the forrest of tabs (under that grey tube) from the     ground bus and the big brass screw going through the FW where on the     other side a flexibel strap goes to the engine. This is a plexi FW     fitted to    see where to drill holes before fitting the real FW.

     [img]cid:part2.E241114E.7FE857E8(at)gmx.net[/img]

     [img]cid:part3.22023B8A.B2ED6A62(at)gmx.net[/img]

      	  Quote: 	
		                  On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 14:03,           bearhawklife <rob(at)robcaldwell.net (rob(at)robcaldwell.net)> wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		  -->           AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net (rob(at)robcaldwell.net)>

           

           This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I           hope my first question won't get me banned for asking the           proverbial "dumb question" on topic that may have already been           covered that I have yet to find...

           

           I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring.  All           have been very helpful and I have learned much.  

           

           I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540.  With           the help of Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at           Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual alternator single           battery set up.  From Bob's book, I have selected to follow           the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.  

           

           Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written           concepts, I just need to "see it".  For example, indicating on           a schematic that the main battery ground goes to the ground           bus / electrical panel…. I’m not sure what that looks like?            Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe?  Other           connections are difficult to imagine as well.  I appreciate           the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings.  Just           curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual           connections.

           

           Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net           or just google “RV-7 builders log” for various builders pics.            Which I have but still coming up short.

           

           Thanks for your help!

           

           --------

           Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

           

           

           

           

           Read this topic online here:

           

           http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491694#491694

           

           

           

           

           Attachments: 

           

           http://forums.matronics.com//files/z12m_107.pdf

           

           

           

           ===========

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           Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"           target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

           ===========

           FORUMS -

           eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

           ===========

           WIKI -

           errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

           ===========

           b Site -

                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

           rel="noreferrer"           target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

           ===========

fuseblock1.jpg

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glovebox-fuseblock-avionicsrack.jpg

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bearhawklife

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

 	  Quote: 	
		  

     

 Rob hard to find some pictures from 16 years ago  Here you see the     two fuseblocks of main and essential bus, if you go to the right you     see on the FW the forrest of tabs (under that grey tube) from the     ground bus and the big brass screw going through the FW where on the     other side a flexibel strap goes to the engine. This is a plexi FW     fitted to    see where to drill holes before fitting the real FW.    	
       

    

Thanks so much!

_________________
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1931
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

One option is to use a forest of tabs.

Here is a link to pictures: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=99656

B&C sells forest of tabs.

https://bandc.com/search/?search_results=ground+block

You do not necessarily have to use a forest of tabs.  Another option is to buy

a brass bolt made for toilets.  Drill a hole through the firewall.  Attach battery 

Ground and engine ground to the brass bolt on the engine side of the 

firewall.  Attach other grounds with ring terminals  to the brass bolt on the aft 

side of the firewall.  More than one wire may be crimped or soldered into each 

ring terminal.  Internal tooth star washers will prevent loosening of the nut and bolt.

_________________
Joe Gores

bearhawklife

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

 	  user9253 wrote: 	
		  One option is to use a forest of tabs.

Here is a link to pictures: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=99656

B&C sells forest of tabs.

https://bandc.com/search/?search_results=ground+block

You do not necessarily have to use a forest of tabs.  Another option is to buy

a brass bolt made for toilets.  Drill a hole through the firewall.  Attach battery 

Ground and engine ground to the brass bolt on the engine side of the 

firewall.  Attach other grounds with ring terminals  to the brass bolt on the aft 

side of the firewall.  More than one wire may be crimped or soldered into each 

ring terminal.  Internal tooth star washers will prevent loosening of the nut and bolt. 	




I had not considered the firewall itself as the "airframe" ground.  My literal brain was imagining the structural tube fuselage to make the airframe ground.

_________________
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

Ok, your EI does encourage a second power source, which could be 2nd 

battery or alternator. By mission, I am thinking more whether you would 

be doing back country flying where starting or replacement parts could 

be an issue, or more than occasional IFR where redundancy could be more 

critical. As Bob stresses, design requires thinking of all failure modes 

and what best mitigates the risk, based on mission. Not suggesting that 

you haven't already done that, just that it is a consideration in how to 

wire to keep simple with minimum possible failure points.

On 10/9/2019 7:43 AM, bearhawklife wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Kellym wrote:

> .......

> You might find additional help if you can describe what mission factors

> led to your dual alternator, single battery configuration.

>

> Kelly

>

 My ignition system will be one SureFly EI and one Slick mag.  I was originally thinking dual Light Speed EI.  But was turned off after understanding the complexity (just my impression) of all the ancillary and satellite components and mounting locations (additional battery, coil packs, modules on the cold side of the firewall, with cooling fans, etc).  SureFly came out with their 6 cylinder mag replacement version recently.  This immediately became the answer for me.  I'm not building a race plane, just wanted the improved performance of EI.  I am using B&C's BC460-H 60amp (main) and BC410-H 20-30amp (b/u) alternators.  SkyTec 149NL Starter.

 --------

 Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491698#491698

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

bearhawklife

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

 	  Kellym wrote: 	
		  Ok, your EI does encourage a second power source, which could be 2nd 

battery or alternator. By mission, I am thinking more whether you would 

be doing back country flying where starting or replacement parts could 

be an issue, or more than occasional IFR where redundancy could be more 

critical. As Bob stresses, design requires thinking of all failure modes 

and what best mitigates the risk, based on mission. Not suggesting that 

you haven't already done that, just that it is a consideration in how to 

wire to keep simple with minimum possible failure points.

	




Yes, these considerations were discussed with Jason Smith at Aerotronics at the time my panel was designed and built.  Jason did a great job working through all scenarios.  His company also did a fantastic job building my panel (10" Skyview HDX, Avidyne 540, 2 axis AP, panel mounted iPad, etc).

_________________
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

just some random pics from my RV10       build of some years ago.

     Fuse         blocks and firewall ground

     Dual         Battery tray and wiring with ground

     

     

     

     On 10/9/2019 7:56 AM, bearhawklife       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> (rob(at)robcaldwell.net)



This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that may have already been covered that I have yet to find...



I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring.  All have been very helpful and I have learned much.  



I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540.  With the help of Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual alternator single battery set up.  From Bob's book, I have selected to follow the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.  



Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just need to "see it".  For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panelâ€¦. Iâ€™m not sure what that looks like?  Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe?  Other connections are difficult to imagine as well.  I appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings.  Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual connections.



Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google â€œRV-7 builders logâ€ for various builders pics.  Which I have but still coming up short.

 

Thanks for your help!



--------

Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.



	
     	
     

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bearhawklife

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

 	  Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: 	
		  just some random pics from my RV10       build of some years ago.... 	


Thanks so much!



I made contact with Aerotronics and Jason Smith helped me out greatly and supplied me with a custom wiring diagram for my setup.  Can't say enough about Aerotronics!

_________________
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.

echristley(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:52 am Post subject: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures

Beautiful work, Bill, and I wouldn't change a thing. But, just a suggestion for other people considering those fuse blocks.  You can get fast-tabs that have the wire exiting at 90 degrees.  It really cleans up the wiring, and allows the bundle to lie flat.



                  

                                                                    On Tuesday, October 15, 2019, 11:21:53 AM EDT, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                                    just some random pics from my RV10       build of some years ago.

     Fuse         blocks and firewall ground

     Dual         Battery tray and wiring with ground

     

     

     

     On 10/9/2019 7:56 AM, bearhawklife       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> (rob(at)robcaldwell.net)



This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that may have already been covered that I have yet to find...



I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring.  All have been very helpful and I have learned much.  



I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540.  With the help of Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual alternator single battery set up.  From Bob's book, I have selected to follow the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.  



Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just need to "see it".  For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panelâ€¦. Iâ€™m not sure what that looks like?  Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe?  Other connections are difficult to imagine as well.  I appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings.  Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual connections.



Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google â€œRV-7 builders logâ€ for various builders pics.  Which I have but still coming up short.

 

Thanks for your help!



--------

Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.



	
     	
     

   

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