 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 224
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:03 am Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
 |
|
The reality is that some doors continue to be lost , which poses a direct risk to third parties. Maybe it's just a*se-covering, but I don't see it as unreasonable, even through I object to the increase in weight, wetted area and drag!!
Duncan McF.
| Quote: | On 05 November 2021 at 10:18 John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:
My opinion on this MPD (not that there appears to have been any consultation about it):-
An MPD for a checklist item? OK, I can see the implications of not shutting the door can be serious, but so could many other things that are on the CHECKLIST.
Will we need to tie a long piece of string to the pitot cover (to remind us to remove it) or to the control locks?
I have taxied out with the door ajar (I stick my arm out and hold onto the external door handle) but have a check item that reminds me to close the door and latch it. DOORS CLOSED & LATCHED.
The rear pin is prone to miss its hole if the weather is warm (doors expand and try to straighten themselves), but having a pin-stop external to the aircraft is not desirable.
The LAA has taken the lead on this, does anybody know what Europa Aircraft is not supporting this MPD? How about progress with the MUUW increase and the BRS Mod?
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=503844#503844
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
budyerly@msn.com
Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 291
Location: Florida USA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
|
|
Europa Door Closing, Latching and Loss Prevention Issues:
I’ve written three or 4 door instructions on hanging, hinging and locking the doors. Many complained there weren’t pictures and I know what you mean. I was dreadfully negligent about pictures.
For those with poorly fitting doors, I’m sorry. They can and should close, but to be weather tight they will be held slightly open by the rubber gasket when lowered. To close the door, it should only need vertical pressure applied to the door glass sill and it should lower completely and latch. A curved door should not require a handle to be pulled in with horizontal pressure. From outside the aircraft only a vertical force on the handle should allow the door to lower a bit more and the handle should snap closed without a thought.
From the inside of the aircraft, pulling the handle inboard assures only the front door latch engages. Many put a strap/knob to pull the rear in. I’ve never needed that, but some pilots and passengers have dimensions which prohibit movement in the cockpit to use a free hand to reach across the chest and push down on the door. That’s life. I should have made a mod for a center finger push area.
Mid door latches and such are nice but be careful about adding too much weight to a door as it will have more mass when it departs and will not simply fly off if jettisoned. If a stock door does hit the tail, it will leave a small mark as the door is light. A heavy door will impart more force. Adding heavy knobs, alternate struts, additional locks, massive metal door knobs, extra glass stiffening, etc. increases mass.
If your door seals are in poor shape, replace them. I found a thinner door seal that works adequately and makes the doors seal and close easier. The bulb dimensions of these seals can be purchased in many dimensions. Mine is 1/16 thick and 5/8” wide by Ebco. It’s very soft and easy to install. At altitude and speed, the doors do expand out due to aerodynamic forces and the gap at the bottom may increase. If your shirt flies out the door, consider a different door seal, but I just let that happen.
On the subject of door/canopy loss prevention: In my past life, my standardization branch looked at canopy loss in our aircraft as a lack of discipline. Of course FEAR, SARCHASM, and RIDDICULE (the three tenants of fighter training) always kicked in and the nickname “Lid, Breezy, Drafty or Topless” kept the discipline of assuring the canopy was locked somewhat in the forefront of ones mind. What we actually did was analyze the canopy locking mechanism from a maintenance and operations standpoint, made/revised checklist procedures, trained, educated, informed, and finally pushed on the damn canopy to assure it was locked. However, sometimes pilots were in a hurry to blast off, and occasionally checklist procedures failed. Spending millions to change the aircraft was not done.
Loss of door/canopy is not exclusive to the Europa. Recently our local FBO had three door departures on their Cessna 162 Sky Catcher, as the front and rear latches seldom both engage, the door flew open with such force it dented the wing under skin, departed the aircraft and hit the horizontal tail. A third latch was installed, but in reality, the third latch made the pilots pause for a moment and look to see if the pin latches engaged properly. Of course, if the latch pins were engaged, and the safety catch latched and one had to get out of the aircraft, the pilot had to undo two latches. In a forced landing or crash the door tends to bind on the auxiliary latch and exit is near impossible. (Although leaning over after unstrapping and kicking the door does work.) I have many other stories on canopies and doors.
We should share or instruct what we have learned to assist/warn/educate our less experienced aviators when appropriate rather than be forced by regulation to modify our aircraft to prevent pilot mistakes.
So, how does this latest LAA Mod SM15833 affect us in our little fiberglass wonder?
I’ve always been keen to apply the required modifications of the LAA or Europa Aircraft (unless I had already done my own prototype and found it satisfactory) as the mods were generally from the field, well thought out, and execution of the mod would improve safety and/or protect the unaware pilot/owner/operator. I fly with many others and even after an extended briefing, demonstration, practice and evaluation, customers/passengers fail to latch the door or apply proper closing technique. Many just never get that the door is curved and apply all the force on the handle to pull in on the door in or worse yet, slam it. Closing force on a hinged door is 90 degrees to the hinges right, so pulling in on the door doesn't align the latches, it bends the door and squishes the door seal.
I must say it is unnerving that our aircraft is being modified by an unelected bureaucratic office which also produces and sells the approved product. The intent is admirable, but the one size fits all execution bears some consideration that many have already wisely professed. From a purely outsiders look at what on the surface appears to be a viable safety solution, I see the following:
1. The installation is interesting as the bolt holes one must drill, seem a bit high. Placed where I looked on an airplane in the shop, the bolts may penetrate the upper part of the shoot bolt guide. (My measurements put the Mod lower than shown as I push down on the door.)
2. Since the door is flexible, it appears that if the door latch handle is forward/down (pins out), when the door is closed, and one simply pulls the latch aft, inward and reengages it to catch the forward guide hole, the rear latch may not latch or may be proud of the teardrop even on a properly fit door. My issue is only if the uneducated operator simply pulls IN on the front handle and slams it forward.
3. Plastic is not my first choice for a robust part when a door may be blown closed or inadvertently dropped and the shoot bolt may impact it as plastic may be easily damaged. Then again, it need not be made of steel or depleted uranium.
4. I am concerned about exact fit and finish of the part for not only cosmetics but also longevity. To look finished, one must do filler/primer/paint for a clean non mildew, UV, fading/yellowing part that is exposed to the elements. My fear is impacting the plastic part will crack it around the perimeter.
5. The Europa Classic has more glass than the XS in the door latch area so the screws can easily be tightened but on the XS I would prefer to imbed more than just a ring of Redux to hold the nuts and screws from crushing the foam.
6. I am not a fan of the screw head on my door inner door flange, but I understand. It would be nice to have countersunk screws from the inside into the (teardrop) threaded in.
7. Stripes on the handle as a warning? OK, but why doesn’t the door have a mandatory placard on how to open and close the door also? Red Triangle on the exterior for emergency opening. I could go on and on with safety placards.
8. Down time and cost of install for those not blessed with maintenance ability can be considerable to make this look good.
Since I have not installed this Mod it is not my place to criticize the LAA and its good but one size fits all solution. Since it is mandatory for the UK, time will tell if it affects the door loss issue in the UK. I do believe one should hold the LAA accountable if the mod fails. At least one would expect the LAA to give you all your money back.
Cost of this mod for most is not an issue as we know aircraft parts are expensive and this part cost is quite reasonable. I will continue in the States to push with some force on my doors to assure proper latching (pilot side with my left elbow and pax side by pushing just aft of the headrest) and take a wait and look see attitude on this mod as I don’t have a better full proof idea either. I tend to lean more on education, training and understanding but in the civilian community I can see the LAAs concern as civil pilot uniformity of training is like herding cats.
I applaud the simplicity of the mod and in most cases, if properly installed, I believe it will work, not add weight nor be a detrimental increase in drag. It is a bit FUGLY. Although making this with an integral key latch may be an interesting idea. Can you Mod a Mod?
Bud Yerly
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 224
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:40 am Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
|
|
Steve,
Sorry, I'm not happy about having to execute the mod either, but I support the LAA's approach and find it difficult to see where it 'went wrong'.
Duncan McF.
[quote] On 09 November 2021 at 10:55 Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk> wrote:
So....in the ongoing furore regarding this MPD/Safety Bulletin....call it what you will......I decided to write to Andy Draper to ask why the 5 hour deadline and why are the LAA making the parts rather than Europa Factory.
Here is his response....
Dear Steve,
The factory is of the same mind as you, that this is simply a check-list issue, but the fact that many Europa doors have been lost over the years would suggest that just the check-list is inadequate in this case. With the latest incident resulted in the door striking not only the tailplane but apparently also the pilot, it would be negligent to ignore it, would you not agree? LAA Engineering decided not to ignore this issue, not only because the AAIB required positive action following the last incident, but because the safety of LAA members is topmost in its remit. It is a very real possibility that the next incident would result in the loss of an aircraft with fatal consequences.
As to the compliance requirement; how many hours would you have made it if it was your decision and you who had to answer to an inquest if you got it wrong? Heaven forbid that the next incident happens even within the next 5 hours of flying. Perhaps the compliance requirement should have actually been ‘before next flight’ to remove any risk.
The fitting of these stops is pretty straight-forward, even for owners who hadn’t built the aircraft themselves. With your experience, I’m sure you’ll have little difficulty in fitting them within an hour or two. You’re not obliged to purchase the kit of parts that LAA Engineering has commissioned and sells through the on-line shop at no profit – (it’s not LAA Engineering who is making the parts – there’s no manufacturing capability here), as you’ll see from the SM leaflet. If any Europa gets grounded because of using up the 5 hours allowed within the next couple of weeks at this time of year, which is not particularly conducive to touring, I’d be somewhat surprised.
..........
I have to say the response lacks empathy with us as owners and I get the feeling that the LAA were a bit pissed that the Europa Factory weren't.....so they took it upon themselves to act. I had drafted a response but not sent it yet!! Lol
Cheers
Steve
GSTES XS 912
50m Backstroke and Cub Scout badges!! 😊
--
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
