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Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Hi! All Europa Forum 

Below is a message sequence I published thanking Terry Seaver for his

contribution of information. Seemingly it has been blocked by some

"Baracuda Spam Firewall Protection system of the Matronics Site .

Please give it access.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG



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terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Hi Bob,



In case you don't already have this link, here is the location of our

write-up for the cowl cooling mods, etc.  Just look at the 'engine

compartment cooling' section.



http://terryseaver.home.comcast.net/N135TD_mods.htm



It has been commented that not all aircraft are alike in their cooling

issues, which I'm sure is quite true.  The 912S installation acts

differently from the 914, and the mono-wheel quite different from the

tri-gear.  Never-the-less, I believe the cowl mods we made might be

useful for all installations using the factory XS cowl, in that our mod

forces cooling air to pass, top-to-bottom, around the cylinders and out

the rear.  Without the baffle behind the engine (and the louvers closed

off), cooling air just passes behind the engine instead.  Remember, the

Rotax has liquid cooled heads, BUT air cooled cylinders, which implies

to me the need for baffling under the cowl similar to that done on

air-cooled LyCo-saurs.



Regards,

Terry



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william(at)wrmills.plus.c
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Terry,  Have you got the 912S shroud fitted to your engine, which takes cold

air from behind the prop and forces it down through the cylinder fins?

Assuming you have, does your ali baffle across the foot wells still aid

general under cowl cooling?



All,  If the gills are blanked off, has anyone found an alternative location

for the regulator to keep it in cool air?



Regards,



William

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Hi! William/all

I guess my Jabiru regulator may be of differing construction but does

look the same as the Rotax one . Mine sits on posts to allow all round

cooling, about 1/2" above the flat P1 Footwell with no gills  and never

gave any trouble. We were only advised to pipe cool air directly aimed

at the ignition coils which I did with the convoluted hoses off a

washing machine the intake end fixed just behind the spinner.



I believe the theory to be ...... if the hot air can't exit at the gills

then there is no flow in that direction to take the heat there, and so

cause the harm. Even the position of the gills doesn't really encourage

convection when on shutdown since they are not at the top cowl high

point for convection. 

Andy Draper advised that they chose the position of the gills purely as

the best place to accommodate the ingress of rain water when parked up!



IMHO parking into wind with the access flaps open for 20 minutes is

always the answer, but I admit I never really gave it a lot of

consideration nor did I open the access doors!

 

Also IMHO a couple of suitably placed soldering mats above the muffler

is really the key to dissipate the convection of heat sufficiently long

to prevent it being a problem.

However I do think that Terry's blank off plate between the foot wells

would be constructive except if it could be extended down through the

engine mounts to below the alternator and ignition equipment it would do

an even better job.



I intend arranging my intercooler waste air to be directed across the

whole of the rear of the engine.......when the motor is running !



The high pressure radiator and oil cooler air needs to be entirely

ducted out of the engine bay rearwards to stop it spoiling the downwards

flow of the general cooling air.( except when you take off the warm air

to cabin heat.(ALL IMHO OF COURSE)



Regards

Bob Harrison.



Robt.C.Harrison

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terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Hi William,



We do not have the factory 912S shroud.  The baffle in the rear and

closing off most of the gills is in lieu of the factory shroud.



It is not obvious to me that the gills are necessary or helpful for

cooling the regulator.  Although we checked the temps in the top of the

cowl, between the carbs, we didn't check the temps at the regulator.

That might be an interesting experiment.



Regards,

Terry Seaver

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Hi! Terry/all

As explained my Jabiru regulator was situated on the P1 footwell and suffered

no thermal stress in 600 hours without gills. 

My point is that  if a flow of air isn't going there it won't be taking excess

heat with it ! ?

BTW thanks for your extensive pictures and documents provided on this topic.

regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG

[quote]-- Original Message --

Subject: RE: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit

for purpose Gills slots in top cowl"

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:08:35 -0800

From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys(at)cisco.com>

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com




Hi William,



We do not have the factory 912S shroud.  The baffle in the rear and

closing off most of the gills is in lieu of the factory shroud.



It is not obvious to me that the gills are necessary or helpful for

cooling the regulator.  Although we checked the temps in the top of the

cowl, between the carbs, we didn't check the temps at the regulator.

That might be an interesting experiment.



Regards,

Terry Seaver

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william(at)wrmills.plus.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gill

Thanks for the reply, Terry.

I intend to purchase a thermocouple or two so that I can monitor the 

temperature in the vicinity of the regulator with the gills open and then 

with them taped over, on the same day, to see what happens.  If the gills 

appear to be effective, I will still consider blanking them off but 

replacing the stbd one with a small nacca inlet directed at the regulator.

Regards,

William



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