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rexjan(at)bigpond.com
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 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: 3 pointers Crosswind |
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Rex - can you do a three-pointer in a 20 mph crosswind?? I'll bet your pretty
darn busy in the cockpit, and then even after you land, with the wing at a positive
angle of attack - it still wants to fly. I would imagine that landing
on a paved runway would be even more unforgiving than grass.
Rodney, to be perfectly honest I don't make a habit of taking on crosswinds for a challenge anymore but I should. However when I was initially learning tail dragging I was doing that sort of thing and I do remember taking on a 90 degree 20 knot crosswind from the right. I figured I was asking for trouble but gave it a go anyway. The book says 15 knots for my plane. Well I had no trouble at all really. The only thing was once the speed got real low, well after touchdown, it did start to come around [weather cock] I just fed back in a bit of power to get control over the tail. ie:- force the tail down and rudder response. Now I see Lowell saying he has handled 25 K !!!!
I'm not sure here if your emphasis was on 3 pointer against wheeler or tri-gear. In my opinion I would far sooner be doing it 3 pointer. I think when you loose speed and the tail drops in a wheeler you are in a very vulnerable position. Perhaps that's just me because I'm very uncomfortable doing wheelers. It would be interesting what someone says that does wheelers all the time.
A small point here in case you do go taildragger. My MKIV had a Maule SFSA tail wheel originally and this was very noisy and slithered all over the place. I and some others have changed just the wheel for an Aircraft Spruce Homebuilders wheel for about $30. Not only does everything get much quieter but control is dramatically improved as it does not slither around like the Maule wheel. Of course one must always remember to keep the stick hard back into the cushion when looking for control on the ground.
Re crosswind in the tri-gear Jabiru I trained in. Well it was the early Jabiru admittedly. The book says 14 k. I can't remember exactly what I did achieve cross wind in it but I do have vivid memories of poor control virtually to the point of no control at low speeds. It has very small control surfaces. My MKIV Kitfox on the other hand is brilliant at low speeds in comparison. The flapperons are a big plus and the tail areas are really good on the later models.
Somone, was it you ? mentioned the quote that their are tail dragger pilots that have ground looped and those that are going too and that's the only two kinds. I guess we all go through a stage of being paranoid about looping it and yes I have done it once and gone close twice. Twice was due to trying to use brakes at considerable speed. The other was learning crosswind touch and go on grass. As I lifted the tail the wind started to turn the plane and me and my CFI friend both hit right rudder at the same time. It was a handfull for a minute and I took off across the very broad grass strip. However now days I really don't think about looping it anymore. I feel I can control it. However one must still be very much on their toes and not over relax. As far as grass or bitumen goes. Grass is definitely preferable because in a swing the front wheels are the pivot point. If you are on grass they can slip a bit and reduce the severity but bitumen hangs on like a leach. Be aware once you reach a certain point in a ground loop it is unstopable.
These days I just feel happier and more in control in my Kitfox. I love it !
Rex.
PS
nearly missed your bit about the wing at a positive angle of attack even after you've landed. Yes it is but remember when you 3 point you don't touch down until you stall. That helps but you are still vulnerable if the crosswind weather cocks you into the wind before you drop below stall speed then the wind becomes a head wind effectively increasing your speed. Also as the outside wing comes around it' will increase speed. Never the less as I mentioned earlier just a little power can help here and after all by now it is all but over and the speed is fast dropping. You can handle it !
[quote][b]
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skyring
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Re: 3 pointers Crosswind |
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"I think when you lose speed and the tail drops in a wheeler you are in a very vulnerable position."
Rex, I think your posts have been spot on but I would argue that the 3 point landing is in the same vulnerable position as the wheel landing as the tail comes down. The difference is, in the wheel landing you can be almost stopped, using brakes and a little power to keep some flow across the tail surfaces, to keep everything under control. If, when you finally let the tail down, the plane goes for a look back at where you have been, it is to do with wind strength and lack of ruddder authority and brakes. And it should not cause any damage. I haven't yet flown a Kitfox but I've done a lot of wheelers and 3 pointers in an Auster and other tail draggers and I like the wheeler when it's gusty and cross wind. It could just be that that's the way I was taught. Soon I will be flying a Kitfox and maybe I will find that the 3 point technique works in a cross wind. It certainly looks to have lots of control authority. Kerry.
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