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short field performance

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nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: short field performance

To all that are flying the RV10,

  

 What is your take on the short field performance of the 10? The Vans site is quoting a lightly loaded (2200lb) 10 will get off the ground in 325 ft and land in 525. Is this a real number of hype? I have a private strip with 1300 feet of grass and obstacles at both ends, will the 10 fit in it? I am considering building a 10 or a Sportsman 2+2. Believe it or not the 10 is less money for the kit. I am not a new pilot, 1400 hrs in single, multi and Helicopter.

  

 Thanks and have a Merry Christmas

  

 Bob Spudis

  [quote][b]

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dav1111(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: short field performance

Bob:

  

 A single pilot half gas 260HP RV-10 can take off  and land on a 1300 foot grass strip on a no wind day but it is going to be  tight.  As far as obstacles at both end it is going to depend on height of  the obstacles.

  

 Now for real life experience.  I have flown my  RV-10 (IO-540 260 HP with MT prop) in and out of a 1600 foot grass strip  multiple times.  Such strip 12TX (1235 MSL) shows on the FAA posting  as being 2000 feet but it is really closer to 1600 feet with an over run  at each end that should not be factored into determining the length of the  runway.

  

 In addition 12TX has 80 foot trees at the south end  (they may have been 30 feet when the runway was built but they are closer to 80  now - High line wires are lower than the tree tops).  Occasionally the tree  tops at the end of the runway get cut back by the power line company but I  have never seen them cut back all the way to the high line wires, more to  get the branches away from the high line wires.  At the north end  there are   30' High Line wires as well.  The runway  also slops sharply downhill to the south (probably at least a 50 feet elevation  difference in the runway from north to south.

  

 I have flown in and out of 12TX with my RV-10 (4  times).  Both with a fair amount of baggage, single pilot (240 lbs),  and full fuel.  Flown out with half tanks and minimum baggage with pilot  and co-pilot (480 lbs) as well.  On a no wind day I use the south runway  for landing as it goes uphill and the north runway for takeoff.  With  wind, I use whichever runway the wind favors naturally.

  

 Is 12TX tight?  You bet your  bippie.  Is it to tight?  Not if you have good short field  landing abilities.  Would I take off with full passengers and full  fuel on a no wind or light wind day?  No, I would send the passengers over  to BMQ and tell them I would pick them up there.   

  

 Are Van's figures fluff?  Probably  not.  I suspect that I could drag N710RV on a sea level runway and  stop it using light brakes in less than 525 feet where there are no  obstacles on a no wind day.  I am not sure I could get it off the  ground in 325 feet on a no wind day at sea level but it is possible.   So far I have never flown N710RV out of a sea level location so I am somewhat  shooting from the hip.  I will say this for Van's, they have been really  accurate on their specs and I have no doubt that Dick Vangrundson himself can do  anything in any of his RV's that he says can be done.  That doesn't mean  that I am a good enough pilot to duplicate his abilities.

  

 The real question is would I as a 1500+ hour pilot  (almost all being high performance)regularly fly in and out of a 1300 foot level  strip with 30' highline wires at both ends?  The answer is yes if the  elevation is less than 1500 MSL and if I plan to fly it regularly with less than  500 lbs of gas and bodies.  The answer is no if I planned on flying it  regularly with more than 800 lbs of gas and bodies.

  

 Hope this helps you make a decision on the RV-10  vs. the sportsman 2+2.  I will tell you that you won't find a better  company than Van's to deal with or a better bunch of people than the RV  crowd.  I can't tell you how much more happier I have been switching from  flying spam cans to flying RV's.

  

 Russ Daves

 N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 76+ hours and  climbing

 N610RV - RV-6A Sold (280 hours flight  time)

 RV-8 - Under  construction

    [quote][b]

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jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: short field performance

I replied to this yesterday, but I guess it didn't go through because I

forgot to resize the attachment.  Now I am on a different computer using

webmail, so I don't have the picture.



My answer would be that my dad has tested N256H against Van's numbers and

he feels that they are accurate.  My dad, of course, has at least several

hundred hours flying in and out of jungle strips in Ecuador, so he is

self-trained and fairly avid Bush Pilot.  I would say that it can be done

at the weight you stated, given that it is not too high above sea level,

that the strip is fairly flat and hard, and there aren't a bunch of ant

hills like the strip we tested in FL.  My dad would probably get in and

out of a strip like that (at) gross if he needed to.  I would recommend you

find an RV-10 and owner and see if they will give you a demo.  If nothing

else, find a strip that is similar in elevation and level-ness but longer

and mark off your strip and see how it performs to that mark.  If you are

satisfied with that, then that makes a difference.  I have researched the

2+2 a fair bit and even though it quotes being a lot more STOL than the

-10, I would say that at the useful load you stated, it probably would

give the 2+2 a run for its money on takeoff and landing performance.  When

it comes to all other performance, the -10 (IMHO) beats the 2+2 hands

down.



Where are you located?



Jesse Saint



 	  Quote: 	
		   Bob:



 A single pilot half gas 260HP RV-10 can take off and land on a 1300 foot

 grass strip on a no wind day but it is going to be tight.  As far as

 obstacles at both end it is going to depend on height of the obstacles.



 Now for real life experience.  I have flown my RV-10 (IO-540 260 HP with

 MT prop) in and out of a 1600 foot grass strip multiple times.  Such strip

 12TX (1235 MSL) shows on the FAA posting as being 2000 feet but it is

 really closer to 1600 feet with an over run at each end that should not be

 factored into determining the length of the runway.



 In addition 12TX has 80 foot trees at the south end (they may have been 30

 feet when the runway was built but they are closer to 80 now - High line

 wires are lower than the tree tops).  Occasionally the tree tops at the

 end of the runway get cut back by the power line company but I have never

 seen them cut back all the way to the high line wires, more to get the

 branches away from the high line wires.  At the north end there are   30'

 High Line wires as well.  The runway also slops sharply downhill to the

 south (probably at least a 50 feet elevation difference in the runway from

 north to south.



 I have flown in and out of 12TX with my RV-10 (4 times).  Both with a fair

 amount of baggage, single pilot (240 lbs), and full fuel.  Flown out with

 half tanks and minimum baggage with pilot and co-pilot (480 lbs) as well.

 On a no wind day I use the south runway for landing as it goes uphill and

 the north runway for takeoff.  With wind, I use whichever runway the wind

 favors naturally.



 Is 12TX tight?  You bet your bippie.  Is it to tight?  Not if you have

 good short field landing abilities.  Would I take off with full passengers

 and full fuel on a no wind or light wind day?  No, I would send the

 passengers over to BMQ and tell them I would pick them up there.



 Are Van's figures fluff?  Probably not.  I suspect that I could drag

 N710RV on a sea level runway and stop it using light brakes in less than

 525 feet where there are no obstacles on a no wind day.  I am not sure I

 could get it off the ground in 325 feet on a no wind day at sea level but

 it is possible.  So far I have never flown N710RV out of a sea level

 location so I am somewhat shooting from the hip.  I will say this for

 Van's, they have been really accurate on their specs and I have no doubt

 that Dick Vangrundson himself can do anything in any of his RV's that he

 says can be done.  That doesn't mean that I am a good enough pilot to

 duplicate his abilities.



 The real question is would I as a 1500+ hour pilot (almost all being high

 performance)regularly fly in and out of a 1300 foot level strip with 30'

 highline wires at both ends?  The answer is yes if the elevation is less

 than 1500 MSL and if I plan to fly it regularly with less than 500 lbs of

 gas and bodies.  The answer is no if I planned on flying it regularly with

 more than 800 lbs of gas and bodies.



 Hope this helps you make a decision on the RV-10 vs. the sportsman 2+2.  I

 will tell you that you won't find a better company than Van's to deal with

 or a better bunch of people than the RV crowd.  I can't tell you how much

 more happier I have been switching from flying spam cans to flying RV's.



 Russ Daves

 N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 76+ hours and climbing

 N610RV - RV-6A Sold (280 hours flight time)

 RV-8 - Under construction


	




Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

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nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: short field performance

Russ,

  

 Thanks for the reply on your experience. 12TX  sounds a lot like my runway only a little longer. I also have about -30 ft elevation difference from east to west, relatively level for about 1/2 of the runway then drops down to the west. Winds are usually out of the west, unfortunately the power lines are on the approach side approx  130 ft high and 400 ft from the threshold. My field is 1840' and we get up to 3800' DA here in the heat of the summer. 

 I suspect that I already knew that the 10 is really pushing the envelope and that is not what I want to do. There is an area on my property that I can put together around 2300+ ft but it would take a lot of work, is not lined up with prevailing winds and it is nearly impossible to taxi to my hanger. I do appreciate the reply and wish you a Merry Christmas.

  

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

  

 In a message dated 12/25/06 07:24:18 Eastern Standard Time, dav1111(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		    Now for real life experience.  I have flown my RV-10 (IO-540 260 HP with MT prop) in and out of a 1600 foot grass strip multiple times.  Such strip 12TX (1235 MSL) shows on the FAA posting as being 2000 feet but it is really closer to 1600 feet with an over run at each end that should not be factored into determining the length of the runway.

  

 In addition 12TX has 80 foot trees at the south end (they may have been 30 feet when the runway was built but they are closer to 80 now - High line wires are lower than the tree tops).  Occasionally the tree tops at the end of the runway get cut back by the power line company but I have never seen them cut back all the way to the high line wires, more to get the branches away from the high line wires.  At the north end there are   30' High Line wires as well.  The runway also slops sharply downhill to the south (probably at least a 50 feet elevation difference in the runway from north to south.



	
  

  [quote][b]

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nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: short field performance

Jesse,

  

 I would bet that your dad has had a lot of experience in short, unimproved conditions. Thanks for your take on the performance. You are right, I need to fly each one and see just what they can do. It is interesting that you think that the performance would be similar, only one way to find out I guess. I was thinking that the 2+2 would be better since it is almost impossible to get into a spin situation and would  side slip really well at a lower stall speed than the 10. Keep up the Lord's work and Merry Christmas!!!

  

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

  

 In a message dated 12/25/06 09:27:08 Eastern Standard Time, jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I would recommend you 

find an RV-10 and owner and see if they will give you a demo.  If nothing 

else, find a strip that is similar in elevation and level-ness but longer 

and mark off your strip and see how it performs to that mark.  If you are 

satisfied with that, then that makes a difference.  I have researched the 

2+2 a fair bit and even though it quotes being a lot more STOL than the 

-10, I would say that at the useful load you stated, it probably would 

give the 2+2 a run for its money on takeoff and landing performance.  When 

it comes to all other performance, the -10 (IMHO) beats the 2+2 hands 



	
  

  [quote][b]

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: short field performance

Jesse,

  

 Sorry I forgot to mention, I am in between N03 and BGM in Upstate NY.

  

 Thanks Again

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

  

 In a message dated 12/25/06 16:12:28 Eastern Standard Time, NYTerminat writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     .aolmailheader          {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial} a.aolmailheader:link    {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:active  {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:hover   {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}    Jesse,

  

 I would bet that your dad has had a lot of experience in short, unimproved conditions. Thanks for your take on the performance. You are right, I need to fly each one and see just what they can do. It is interesting that you think that the performance would be similar, only one way to find out I guess. I was thinking that the 2+2 would be better since it is almost impossible to get into a spin situation and would  side slip really well at a lower stall speed than the 10. Keep up the Lord's work and Merry Christmas!!!

  

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

  

 In a message dated 12/25/06 09:27:08 Eastern Standard Time, jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I would recommend you 

find an RV-10 and owner and see if they will give you a demo.  If nothing 

else, find a strip that is similar in elevation and level-ness but longer 

and mark off your strip and see how it performs to that mark.  If you are 

satisfied with that, then that makes a difference.  I have researched the 

2+2 a fair bit and even though it quotes being a lot more STOL than the 

-10, I would say that at the useful load you stated, it probably would 

give the 2+2 a run for its money on takeoff and landing performance.  When 

it comes to all other performance, the -10 (IMHO) beats the 2+2 hands 



	
  

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


	
  

  [quote][b]

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