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Baggage door
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: Baggage door

Chris,



I have worked on the door all the way up to riviting it.  I have crimped the 

inner flanges of the door frame in several areas because the upper and lower 

skin edge was slightly bowed out in the middle. Now I believe I have crimped 

the flanges about as much as I would want to and the only thing still out of 

alignment is the middle of the top frame, which leaves the skin of the door 

in that area about 1/8" proud.  The corners are all in alignment with the 

fuselage, everything looks good except this one bowed out spot.  I certainly 

can build up the fuselage at the intersection of the cabin top and the metal 

fuse skin, but this will not be the true shape that the fuselage should 

ideally have.



Any more suggestions would be welcomed, before I get the rivets out.



Not that this will help my situation, but I have also thought about placing 

a fiberglass/kevlar super thin sheet which could laminate over the entire 

door to seal off the gap on the top/bottom and back.  The hinge area will 

not allow coverage in that area. My mod would give better aerodynamics than 

the 3/32 to 1/8 gap around the perimeter(That is provided I can sinch it 

down tight to the skin)



JOhn G.

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: Baggage door

John, I found that the hand seamer was a great tool to 'adjust' the 

baggage door to match the contour of the fuse. just small adjustments 

seemed to bring everything in line for me.



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



John Gonzalez wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Chris,



 I have worked on the door all the way up to riviting it.  I have 

 crimped the inner flanges of the door frame in several areas because 

 the upper and lower skin edge was slightly bowed out in the middle. 

 Now I believe I have crimped the flanges about as much as I would want 

 to and the only thing still out of alignment is the middle of the top 

 frame, which leaves the skin of the door in that area about 1/8" 

 proud.  The corners are all in alignment with the fuselage, everything 

 looks good except this one bowed out spot.  I certainly can build up 

 the fuselage at the intersection of the cabin top and the metal fuse 

 skin, but this will not be the true shape that the fuselage should 

 ideally have.



 Any more suggestions would be welcomed, before I get the rivets out.



 Not that this will help my situation, but I have also thought about 

 placing a fiberglass/kevlar super thin sheet which could laminate over 

 the entire door to seal off the gap on the top/bottom and back.  The 

 hinge area will not allow coverage in that area. My mod would give 

 better aerodynamics than the 3/32 to 1/8 gap around the perimeter(That 

 is provided I can sinch it down tight to the skin)



 JOhn G.

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: Baggage door

Smack it with a hammer!



Just kidding.  I haven't been back to that section yet, I just moved on

for awhile while waiting for new door pieces, but it sounds like you've

got it just about as good as you can get it.  seriously, some have

reported that a bit of "man-handling" can improve the fit, but I'd be

leery of that, cause you might just put the corners out of alignment

while trying to improve the bow in the middle, or you might put a crease

somewhere where you wish you didn't.  



Just a thought in the vein of the pursuit of perfection...  someone

posted somewhere that you really don't notice the slight imperfections

when you're blasting along at 170 kts, or when you don't have a

particular section under a microscope (as you do when you're

constructing that area).  It's really easy for me to get wound up in

utter perfection, but sometimes, it really is good enough.  personally,

I'm not building a show winner.  I think a first-time builder like

myself might not have the skills to do so.  What I AM trying to do is

build it better than whatever airplane I rent to go buzzing around, and

I think I'm doing that, both from a safety, and from an aesthetic

standpoint.  When I'm bummed that something isn't exactly perfect, I

just take extra time doing my preflight of a rental 172, and I start to

feel REALLY good about my building practices, and about the standard

I've set for myself.  



cj

#40410

fuse

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Baggage door

Thanks Deems



Sorry, but haven't used that tool for some time, it is the plyer like tool 

with the flat plate on each side. Seems like I could only change the angle 

of the frame flange with that tool and I think it is the entire piece that  

needs to be bent in slightly.  Perhaps making some relief cuts in the frame 

(At the intersection of the flange and the aluminum which isn't joined to 

the skin or to the close out panel )with a dremel disk and then bending the 

material between the cuts would cause the flange to pull in.

                                        close out panel

                                        _Flange_____

                                        _

                                        _

cut here and crimp             _

                        ----------->    ___________

                                          flange

                                         outside skin



This should pull the outer fange in in the bulged out area. I only need a 

four inch area.



JOhn



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Baggage door

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:51:51 -0700






John, I found that the hand seamer was a great tool to 'adjust' the baggage 

door to match the contour of the fuse. just small adjustments seemed to 

bring everything in line for me.



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



John Gonzalez wrote:



>

>

>Chris,

>

>I have worked on the door all the way up to riviting it.  I have crimped 

>the inner flanges of the door frame in several areas because the upper and 

>lower skin edge was slightly bowed out in the middle. Now I believe I have 

>crimped the flanges about as much as I would want to and the only thing 

>still out of alignment is the middle of the top frame, which leaves the 

>skin of the door in that area about 1/8" proud.  The corners are all in 

>alignment with the fuselage, everything looks good except this one bowed 

>out spot.  I certainly can build up the fuselage at the intersection of 

>the cabin top and the metal fuse skin, but this will not be the true shape 

>that the fuselage should ideally have.

>

>Any more suggestions would be welcomed, before I get the rivets out.

>

>Not that this will help my situation, but I have also thought about 

>placing a fiberglass/kevlar super thin sheet which could laminate over the 

>entire door to seal off the gap on the top/bottom and back.  The hinge 

>area will not allow coverage in that area. My mod would give better 

>aerodynamics than the 3/32 to 1/8 gap around the perimeter(That is 

>provided I can sinch it down tight to the skin)

>

>JOhn G.

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: Baggage door

I was able to physically apply some torque to my door, using just hands, 

it didn't take very much and it got pretty close. the remainder I was 

able to use the hand seamer, and make small adjustments, no need to cut 

anything.



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



John Gonzalez wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Deems



 Sorry, but haven't used that tool for some time, it is the plyer like 

 tool with the flat plate on each side. Seems like I could only change 

 the angle of the frame flange with that tool and I think it is the 

 entire piece that  needs to be bent in slightly.  Perhaps making some 

 relief cuts in the frame (At the intersection of the flange and the 

 aluminum which isn't joined to the skin or to the close out panel 

 )with a dremel disk and then bending the material between the cuts 

 would cause the flange to pull in.

                                        close out panel

                                        _Flange_____

                                        _

                                        _

 cut here and crimp             _

                        ----------->    ___________

                                          flange

                                         outside skin



 This should pull the outer fange in in the bulged out area. I only 

 need a four inch area.



 JOhn



> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> Subject: Re: Baggage door

> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:51:51 -0700

>

> 

>

> John, I found that the hand seamer was a great tool to 'adjust' the 

> baggage door to match the contour of the fuse. just small adjustments 

> seemed to bring everything in line for me.

>

> Deems Davis # 406

> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

> http://deemsrv10.com/

>

> John Gonzalez wrote:

>

>> 

>> <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

>>

>> Chris,

>>

>> I have worked on the door all the way up to riviting it.  I have 

>> crimped the inner flanges of the door frame in several areas because 

>> the upper and lower skin edge was slightly bowed out in the middle. 

>> Now I believe I have crimped the flanges about as much as I would 

>> want to and the only thing still out of alignment is the middle of 

>> the top frame, which leaves the skin of the door in that area about 

>> 1/8" proud.  The corners are all in alignment with the fuselage, 

>> everything looks good except this one bowed out spot.  I certainly 

>> can build up the fuselage at the intersection of the cabin top and 

>> the metal fuse skin, but this will not be the true shape that the 

>> fuselage should ideally have.

>>

>> Any more suggestions would be welcomed, before I get the rivets out.

>>

>> Not that this will help my situation, but I have also thought about 

>> placing a fiberglass/kevlar super thin sheet which could laminate 

>> over the entire door to seal off the gap on the top/bottom and 

>> back.  The hinge area will not allow coverage in that area. My mod 

>> would give better aerodynamics than the 3/32 to 1/8 gap around the 

>> perimeter(That is provided I can sinch it down tight to the skin)

>>

>> JOhn G.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

owl40188(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: Baggage door

John,

  

 Your door sounds similar to the way mine came out.  I slowly worked it with my hands and the fit improved drastically.  I haven't put the seal on but without it the fit looks pretty good to me.  I am going to wait until I have the canopy on to install the seal and work it a bit more.

  

 Good luck with it.

  

 Niko

 40188

 ---

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Guys,



Massage, bend, caress and shoot for this.....and use the hand seamer....I did all of that and it's  N...I...C...E.



When asked by my fellow builder how I did it?? ....Why workmanship my lad...workmanship.



Naaaahh...metal is your friend once you figure out how to work it (think girlfriend/wife) with total respect.

Rick S.

40185



do not archive

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_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: Baggage door

Really give the hand seamer some thought. I had another builder ask me how I made mine fit so well. It was all minor work with a hands seamer. Take your time and don't bend the edges but use the tool to slightly "bow" them, don't close the jaws tightly on the skin but leave them open a bit so the skin can sort of roll and move as you work it, but just do a little at a time. Tape on the jaws help to keep the skin from slipping off. 



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Baggage door

Thanks for the suggestions.



The problem I am having understanding the use of the seemer is that the 

entire door skin is flat, any shape that the skin takes should be a by 

product of the frame's shape which the skin is tied to.  I really don't want 

to touch the skin and bend it at the edges because it will be very obvious 

where the break from straightness/flatness occurs. It seems that the slight 

bow in the top part of the frame is what needs to be slightly removed, 

perhaps with bend between two hands(Easy does it).



I am trying to digest what you are saying, hoping what I am saying is making 

sense aswell.



JOhn G.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Baggage door

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:30:07 -0500 (EST)






Really give the hand seamer some thought. I had another builder ask me how 

I made mine fit so well. It was all minor work with a hands seamer. Take 

your time and don't bend the edges but use the tool to slightly "bow" them, 

don't close the jaws tightly on the skin but leave them open a bit so the 

skin can sort of roll and move as you work it, but just do a little at a 

time. Tape on the jaws help to keep the skin from slipping off.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

rickgray(at)roadrunner.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: Baggage door

John,

 You've received at least a dozen  replies now. If it's that bad then make a new door. 

  

 It's that simple... move on  :^).

  

 Yes...I'm hitting the delete  key.

  

 Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo  Farm

 do NOT archive

 [quote]   ---

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Rick,



you are actually confused with some of the other posts.



There have only been 5 repleys to my questions regarding the baggage door.

As for responses to the TURKEY VULTURE there are 17.

11 regarding IFR equipment

and 8 regarding the door latch security system.



Now that I am finished counting, The door really isn't bad at all, just 

thought that some of you might have some unique ideas worth sharing that 

might bring it from a 95% to a 100%. Making a new door would bring me to the 

exact spot I am in right now, with no improvement...there is nothing 

finallized, just want the extra 5% of result and learning before it is 

finished.



JOhn G

[quote]From: "Rick Gray" <rickgray(at)roadrunner.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Baggage door

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:19:02 -0500



John,

You've received at least a dozen replies now. If it's that bad then make a 

new door.



It's that simple... move on :^).



Yes...I'm hitting the delete key.



Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm

do NOT archive

   ---

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: Baggage door

I'm ecstatic to receive all the posts, cause I AM makin a new door, and

I don't want to screw this one up!



cj

#40410

fuse

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

do not archive



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Sorry John, I'd reply about the door, but mine is only a 95% door,

so it wouldn't help you much.  Does this count as a door reply for

you?  Let's get those numbers up! 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Gonzalez wrote:

[quote] 

 Rick,

 you are actually confused with some of the other posts.

 There have only been 5 repleys to my questions regarding the baggage door.

 As for responses to the TURKEY VULTURE there are 17.

 11 regarding IFR equipment

 and 8 regarding the door latch security system.

 Now that I am finished counting, The door really isn't bad at all, just 

 thought that some of you might have some unique ideas worth sharing that 

 might bring it from a 95% to a 100%. Making a new door would bring me to 

 the exact spot I am in right now, with no improvement...there is nothing 

 finallized, just want the extra 5% of result and learning before it is 

 finished.

 JOhn G

> From: "Rick Gray" <rickgray(at)roadrunner.com>

> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

> Subject: Re: Baggage door

> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:19:02 -0500

>

> John,

> You've received at least a dozen replies now. If it's that bad then 

> make a new door.

>

> It's that simple... move on :^).

>

> Yes...I'm hitting the delete key.

>

> Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm

> do NOT archive

>   ---

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Hey Rick....



Holidays got you stressing!!!! 



Hit delete and move on dude.



It is a very visible part of the aircraft and if we can help John get it lined up then so be it...



POST AWAY...not like that crap about Lycoming vs. Eggenfellner, this is RV-10 structure!



We don't need attitude that comes from the back of your Buffalo's



With a smile, of course...lighten up.



Rick S.

40185 

do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Baggage door

You gotta be easy on him, he has been breathing cabin top dust for

several weeks now, and the resin fumes are getting to him!

Dan

N289DT RV10 E 

PS Lyco or E-Sub's are not crap.... At least not cheap crap that is



--

rickgray(at)roadrunner.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Baggage door

No Sir...Holidays are my FAVORITE  time of year :^)!!

  

 You might want to reread my  reply....I 'thought' I was helping and even included a little smiley to make  sure my post wasn't taken out of context......my sincere apology if it  was.

  

 Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo  Farm

 http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/

 [quote]   ---

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Lol....yeah I get it.



The engine remark was aimed at the actual debate between the two products, not the product, which I have shelled out my $43K for as well. Just a hint...it doesn't have a PSRU so...... :O



I totally understand the intent of the post, and didn't plan to become some sort of puesdo moderator. I know how frustrating trying to get something just right and when there are 20 options the more chance there is of finding one that works for you.



Happy celebrations to all regardless of your religious preferences....it's a birthday celebration for our house!!



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Oh nooo here it goes again! $43k vs $29K? What do you get for the extra

money? "GRIN" That should fan the spark.

Playing PS3 in buildus interruptus, but it is 82 degrees outside!

Dan 

N289DT RV10E



--

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: Baggage door

Chrome valve covers and nice paint 



lol...82????? it's not even 82 in Vegas right now!!!



Barrett's is my engine builder, and that means nothing against anyone else...they spent the time talking to me at OSH, explained everything, have a great reputation and Rhonda and the gang monitor the list. Monty Barrett's reputation and knowledge was enough for me along with all the good things all their customers had to say..and I did check..



Ric kS.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Baggage door

I too agree that Barrett's is the way to go for a Lycoming. I spent

allot of time with them on the phone trying to make the decision, and

they were really good at helping me understand the different models and

options. If I had gone with a Lycoming, I would have chosen them to

build mine.

Dan 



--

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