 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: D2 Update |
 |
|
Guys/Gals,
Since I'm out of town for the holidays (like many of you) I can't take the time to call each one of you individually so I'm going to make a post here. MANY of you guys purchased your Chelton systems through my business and henceforth we'll all be in this together. I'm embarrassed, upset and scared as to what is ultimately going to happen with this whole debacle. I do know it's pretty crappy that this was dropped on all of us 24hrs before the holidays. I'm not in the office and most of you aren't at home so we can't even communicate about it.
Right now we just don't know all of the facts and what is going to happen so it's far to early to speculate as to the outcome. What I do know is that all of the dealers aren't sitting on your money. Per D2A, we sent your payments to them for systems. Some of you have complete systems, some of you have partial systems and a few have nothing. All of you can be guaranteed that us dealers are in contact with each other already, and we're all doing as much as we can to figure out this mess and find some sort of solution. This can't happen until after the holidays so don't expect much of an update before the new year. As dealers we're in a really horrible position....and if we had your money the solutions would be easy...we'd just give your money back or buy something else. But, the huge problem is that we don't have your money - and frankly not a single one of us dealers could survive or financially afford to eat this. Remember, we're not talking about a couple people, we're talking about many dozens of you. So, the end result is that we all have to just wait a few days and see what gets sorted out. We're all devastated, sick, scared and stressed as to what the ultimate outcome is. We all had some sort of "gut feeling" that things at D2A were tough, but we had literally NO idea it was this bad. Heck, it was just Friday that I received a shipment of SV-10 harnesses for a variety of customers from them.
The only thing I can hope is that cooler heads prevail and everyone can still end up with a system. Personally I still think the actual units are good units, but this whole mess is leaving a really bad taste in my mouth. Suffice to say that as an outcome of this, as a business we WILL NOT ever sell another product to customers where the distributor or mfgr requires money up front, even 50% (like another EFIS mfgr). I'm able to run my business without using customers money up front, and I expect the same from mfgrs. If they can't do it, then something is wrong. I can't stand sitting on customers money when there is no product, hence the reason we just can't easily "pay everyone back".
In closing, I'd urge everyone to try and be patient for a few days while all of us dealers sort out this mess and figure out our options both legally and professionally for us and out customers. Rest assured we've all had some initial legal counsel on this and there is no doubt going to be more. As the largest seller of Chelton products to the RV market, I can guarantee you I'll sleep less than anyone during the next few days/weeks. We're all working off of very little information, and what we do have is sketchy at best. Getting good, accurate & detailed information in the next week is going to be impossible. We're going to do our best to contact each one of you individually to review your specific situation, but at the moment there isn't going to be any solid answers because we just don't know where this is going to end up. Like I said, hopefully some intelligent and cool heads at Chelton will prevail. Like Tim, I'm deeply saddened by this mess because I was one the loudest proponents of the Chelton EFIS line and personally have the good fortune to call many of you my friends. Being treated like this isn't fair, good, or reasonable and not the way to do business. I sincerely apologize for what I can right now.....but we all need to sit tight for a few days and see what comes out of this. It just makes me sick to see this sort of thing happen over and over again in aviation. What is it with people who run these businesses that they just think it's ok to take/spend/loose people's hard earned money and then walk away? Dealing with issues like this makes my blood boil. I can't fathom treating people like that, and I can't imagine why anyone would let their business get to that point without even asking for help, warning the customers/dealers, etc......these sort of things don't happen overnight and to pretend they do is dubious at best and unfortuneately I'm sure this won't be the last time we see it.
Best regards and try to have a happy holiday,
Stein.
[quote] --
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: D2 Update |
|
|
Stein, I appreciate your EMAIL and will wait til you have more information for us. Really screws up the holiday season for lots of folks.
Regards,
Doug
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kdbelue(at)charter.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: D2 Update |
|
|
Stein,
It's good to read your email. I was nervous about handing over $26k to D2A without a product shipping - I certainly didn't want to. I studied all of the systems available at the time (1.5 years ago) and determined that Chelton was what I wanted. So I reluctantly paid and waited - I had no other choice if I as an individual wanted their product. If everyone, especially the dealers, say no to this "pay now and receive the product at some later date" scheme, it would provide much better protection to consumers as well as insuring that companies have the backing to be a successful company and not a business that is hanging on a thread, using customer's money to keep them in business day-to-day. I believe there are a lot of customers that have bought Chelton systems and are still waiting on components. I hope everyone will stick together when considering future products and only buy from companies that require money when the product ships.
Good luck Stein, and all of us involved in this.
Kevin Belue
RV6A flying
RV10 finish
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
neilcolliver(at)maxnet.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: D2 Update |
|
|
Hi Stein
Yeup, the timing is horrible. At least I'm only wondering about one
system. I'm not surprised you feel sick. it could be worse though, if
someone just released a cross between Chelton & Google earth that was
Pinpoint & software on a Mac! I guess that will eventually come, but in
the intervening 10 years, I'll stick with our Chelton order, and hope
you guys get it sorted by the time we need it.
I'll be patient & wait (do I have any choice?) Anyhow, it's Christmas /
Hannukah. & we have 5 small children that need playing with. More
valuable & enjoyable than any box of electronics. & certainly more
complicated. Most were delivered late, although only by a couple of
weeks.
Hope you have your own family & kids to play with. It will all
eventually get sorted, and life will go on. We will all be a bit wiser.
All the best.
Neil
On 25 Dec 2006, at 5:44, Stein Bruch wrote:
[quote] Guys/Gals,
Since I'm out of town for the holidays (like many of you) I can't take
the time to call each one of you individually so I'm going to make a
post here. MANY of you guys purchased your Chelton systems through my
business and henceforth we'll all be in this together. I'm
embarrassed, upset and scared as to what is ultimately going to happen
with this whole debacle. I do know it's pretty crappy that this was
dropped on all of us 24hrs before the holidays. I'm not in the office
and most of you aren't at home so we can't even communicate about it.
Right now we just don't know all of the facts and what is going to
happen so it's far to early to speculate as to the outcome. What I do
know is that all of the dealers aren't sitting on your money. Per
D2A, we sent your payments to them for systems. Some of you have
complete systems, some of you have partial systems and a few have
nothing. All of you can be guaranteed that us dealers are in contact
with each other already, and we're all doing as much as we can to
figure out this mess and find some sort of solution. This can't happen
until after the holidays so don't expect much of an update before the
new year. As dealers we're in a really horrible position....and if
we had your money the solutions would be easy...we'd just give your
money back or buy something else. But, the huge problem is that we
don't have your money - and frankly not a single one of us dealers
could survive or financially afford to eat this. Remember, we're not
talking about a couple people, we're talking about many dozens
of you. So, the end result is that we all have to just wait a few days
and see what gets sorted out. We're all devastated, sick, scared and
stressed as to what the ultimate outcome is. We all had some sort of
"gut feeling" that things at D2A were tough, but we had literally NO
idea it was this bad. Heck, it was just Friday that I received a
shipment of SV-10 harnesses for a variety of customers from them.
The only thing I can hope is that cooler heads prevail and everyone
can still end up with a system. Personally I still think the actual
units are good units, but this whole mess is leaving a really bad
taste in my mouth. Suffice to say that as an outcome of this, as a
business we WILL NOT ever sell another product to customers where the
distributor or mfgr requires money up front, even 50% (like another
EFIS mfgr). I'm able to run my business without using customers money
up front, and I expect the same from mfgrs. If they can't do it, then
something is wrong. I can't stand sitting on customers money when
there is no product, hence the reason we just can't easily "pay
everyone back".
In closing, I'd urge everyone to try and be patient for a few days
while all of us dealers sort out this mess and figure out our options
both legally and professionally for us and out customers. Rest assured
we've all had some initial legal counsel on this and there is no doubt
going to be more. As the largest seller of Chelton products to the RV
market, I can guarantee you I'll sleep less than anyone during the
next few days/weeks. We're all working off of very little
information, and what we do have is sketchy at best. Getting good,
accurate & detailed information in the next week is going to be
impossible. We're going to do our best to contact each one of you
individually to review your specific situation, but at the moment
there isn't going to be any solid answers because we just don't know
where this is going to end up. Like I said, hopefully some
intelligent and cool heads at Chelton will prevail. Like Tim, I'm
deeply saddened by this mess because I was one the loudest proponents
of the Chelton EFIS line and personally have the good fortune to call
many of you my friends. Being treated like this isn't fair, good, or
reasonable and not the way to do business. I sincerely apologize for
what I can right now.....but we all need to sit tight for a few days
and see what comes out of this. It just makes me sick to see this
sort of thing happen over and over again in aviation. What is it with
people who run these businesses that they just think it's ok to
take/spend/loose people's hard earned money and then walk away?
Dealing with issues like this makes my blood boil. I can't fathom
treating people like that, and I can't imagine why anyone would let
their business get to that point without even asking for help, warning
the customers/dealers, etc......these sort of things don't happen
overnight and to pretend they do is dubious at best and unfortuneately
I'm sure this won't be the last time we see it.
Best regards and try to have a happy holiday,
Stein.
> --
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: D2 Update |
|
|
Thanks for the info. This was part of my original
concerns when I sent the money direct to D2A rather than a dealer. As it
turns out the dealers were probably more stable than D2A. I will be OK as I
have all the parts except the Pinpoint and then some. I insisted that D2A
ship everything to me 09/2005 and I checked it all out by 11/2005 so it was
working for me then. Although I did have to send the IDUs back several times to fix some infant mortality problems. On the positive side Regan Designs is still in business (to my knowledge) and they supply and maintain the IDUs. The software should be the Chelton standard so software and data base updates are going to be available. The big question for most will probably be how to obtain the new or old GAD(AHRS).
I have been asking Kirk and Amy for a couple of months
how they were staying in business given that they were unable to sell new
systems. For awhile I thought they were using any new Pinpoint shipments to sell
new customers and leave their old customers bare. I did , however, get the new
connector kit and GPS antenna and installed them. About a month ago I told
D2A that I would not ship my old AHRS back to them until receipt of the
Pinpoint. Looks like I might have to use the XBOW until it fails depending
on what Chelton offers. Having been through the Stoddard Hamilton
bankruptcy, I would expect a new "at cost" price for the D2A units not received
(but paid for) as Chelton (if not careful) will still spend a lot in the
courts over this. my IDUs say Chelton on the exterior.
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: D2 Update |
|
|
Be advised that this type of thing happens not only in avionics but also engines. Take a poll of those on the net who have paid for an engine and not received it or received a painted "wreck". One of the Phoenix RV builders has experience with paying for an engine to be shipped from Canada but after $25K+ he received nothing. Try legal action across countries boundaries.
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
