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Surface Corrosion?

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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Hi  

   

This evening I was starting to prep my tail cone parts. When removing the vinyl wrap, one piece had some unusual surface discoloration. I thought it might be some adhesive and tried removing it with lacquer thinner but to no avail. It looks like a mineral deposit of some sort. Is this surface corrosion and if so how to handle this.  

   

I have attached a couple of pictures.  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 – Lost in the empennage  

   

PS: I hope everyone had a fun Christmas and is looking forward to a great New Year!

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DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Looks like filiform corrosion.  I would talk  to Van's and maybe replace the part.

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

  

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

HI Dave  

   

Thanks for the info. It does look a bit odd and therefore troublesome. I will do as you suggest and speak to Vans and see what they have to say.  

   

Cheers  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 – Lost in the empennage  

   

   

   

   

--

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Hi Dave  

   

Based on your description, I googled Filiform Corrosion and found this link. It has a very interesting time lapse movie showing Filiform Corrosion forming on aluminum as well as an explanation as to why it forms.   

   

Cheers  

   

Les  

   

--

john_rv10(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Hi Les,  

   

Yes, that looks very much like filiform corrosion. You will find that alodine won’t take to that area.  

   

A relatively painless but time consuming solution I found for the same problem is to remove the filiform corrosion with a small grinder with a felt pad with some aluminum polishing paste. This preps the surface for alodining then painting as you prefer. Other methods of removing the filiform corrosion I tried left the surface too marked for my liking.  

   

Cheers,  

John  

(wings)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 1:08 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Surface Corrosion?  

  

   

Hi  

   

This evening I was starting to prep my tail cone parts. When removing the vinyl wrap, one piece had some unusual surface discoloration. I thought it might be some adhesive and tried removing it with lacquer thinner but to no avail. It looks like a mineral deposit of some sort. Is this surface corrosion and if so how to handle this.  

   

I have attached a couple of pictures.  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 – Lost in the empennage  

   

PS: I hope everyone had a fun Christmas and is looking forward to a great New Year!  

       [quote][b]

gommone7(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Hi Les,I did recive one of my wings bottom skins in the same conditions,it is a no brainer,I ask them if my dollars have some kind of surface corrosion,don't even ask what to do ,ask only for a replacement,that simple,

Cheers ,Hugo #40456

 	  Quote: 	

 From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>

 Date: 2006/12/27 Wed PM 09:08:03 EST

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Surface Corrosion?

 Hi

 This evening I was starting to prep my tail cone parts. When removing the

 vinyl wrap, one piece had some unusual surface discoloration. I thought it

 might be some adhesive and tried removing it with lacquer thinner but to no

 avail. It looks like a mineral deposit of some sort. Is this surface

 corrosion and if so how to handle this.

 I have attached a couple of pictures.

 Inquiring minds need to know

 Les Kearney

 RV10 # 40643 - Lost in the empennage

 PS: I hope everyone had a fun Christmas and is looking forward to a great

 New Year!

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Les’s issue with corrosion reminded me of a topic I wanted to solicit opinions from the list.    I attended a RV builder’s class a couple weeks ago at Grov-Air in Indy.   Troy Grover, the gentleman conducting the class stated that he has seen several RVs that have significant corrosion along the lines were the vinyl wrap was removed by a soldering iron.   His conclusion was that dirt was collecting in the edge of the vinyl and absorbing moisture.   He stated that he’s seen this in the last couple kits that have come through his shop.  

   

Since my empennage kit is in route at the moment, I am thinking about the approach I want to take.  My current desire is to leave the vinyl on as long as possible to minimize scratching.  

   

Does anyone know of anyone that has experienced corrosion along the lines of the vinyl that were cut with a soldering iron?  

   

It seems like the only way to prevent the issue that Les has discovered is to remove the vinyl when you inventory, but I would think would have disastrous effect of the quality of the surface.  

   

I am very interested in hearing on how Van’s handles Les’s issue.   I am optimistic that they will replace the part for Les.   

   

   

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 9:08 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Surface Corrosion?  

  

   

Hi  

   

This evening I was starting to prep my tail cone parts. When removing the vinyl wrap, one piece had some unusual surface discoloration. I thought it might be some adhesive and tried removing it with lacquer thinner but to no avail. It looks like a mineral deposit of some sort. Is this surface corrosion and if so how to handle this.  

   

I have attached a couple of pictures.  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 – Lost in the empennage  

   

PS: I hope everyone had a fun Christmas and is looking forward to a great New Year!  

        [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

LIKE2LOOP(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

In a message dated 12/28/2006 7:27:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,  rvmail(at)thelefflers.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  His conclusion was    that dirt was collecting in the edge of the vinyl and absorbing    moisture.   He stated that heâ€™s seen this in the last couple kits    that have come through his  shop. 	


 

     Find out more about the conditions of the  parts that he described, as in where were they stored?  How long  (years)?  Humidity, laying on bare concrete, etc....  i would be  suspicous of moisture getting under the plastic, from repeated wiping with a wet  cloth to clean the part  or laying on  bare cement floor or against a  block wall.   Maybe these cases involved a heavy hand that scratched  the pure aluminum layer from the part as the plastic was being melted with the  soldering iron?  That would allow some damage to occur!      If too small of a soldering iron is used, there may be a temptation to  press harder to cut the plastic.  Use a big iron and move it only fast  enough to cut passively and it wont mar the metal.  Think of it  like the tracking of a diamond needle on a plastic record.   There is  always a reason, and i don't buy the "dirt" concept.  The dirt would be  carbon residue from plastic melting, sitting on top of pure aluminum.   Something else happened....

  

    I am in FLA, very high humidity, with plastic  film cut back with soldering iron.  No signs of any change yet, and i am  going very slow on my build.  The film is very protective of the large  outer surfaces. I did strip all of plastic away on everything internal of  course, so you are only talking about the outer skins....

  

 Steve              

  

 do not archive   

 

Stephen  Blank              #40499 

766 SE River Lane

Port St. Lucie, FL 34983



772-475-5556  cell - evenings and weekends



  [quote][b]

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Ooops  

   

I forgot to attach the link.   

   

It is: http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=180&pageid=2144416691  

   

Cheers  

   

Les  

   

--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Les, that’s an Excellent read of all eleven (11) web pages. This is what I play with every night while other builder’s sleep.  It brings clarity to the issues of alodine, anodize and proper surface preparation including final topcoat application without a “declaration of war”.  

   

The final corrective solution often involves Eddy Current, Ultra-sound or X-ray (all expensive diagnostics) and drives home the value of prevention rather than intervention due to poor preparation during initial construction.  

     

John Cox 

 

   

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:25 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Surface Corrosion?  

  

   

Ooops  

   

I forgot to attach the link.   

   

It is: http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=180&pageid=2144416691  

   

Cheers  

   

Les  

   

      [quote][b]

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

Hi Again  

   

I spoke to Ken at Van’s who suggested I clean the filiform corrosion using a scotchbright pad. After some serious scouring, I got it off with the pad. That being said, I was most unhappy with the result as I was almost certainly well into the substrate and removed the ALCLAD layer. As a result I am concerned that it may lead to greater problems in the future especially if my priming is compromised during assembly. Van’s was quite happy to send out a replacement. As this is part of the forward tail cone bulkhead, this won’t have too big an impact on my build schedule.  

   

Cheers  

   

Les  

RV10 #40643 – Lost in the empennage  

   

--

jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: Surface Corrosion?

The solution is to simply remove all of the plastic up front... Parts can't be

properly dimpled, riveted, or deburred with plastic in the way. In addition, if

you are planning to paint you'll end up buffing/sanding/scotch-briting every

inch of the surface anyway. So add lots of hours to an already long project by

oh-so-carefully removing plastic in nice straight lines?



If the corrosion is minor, just buff it out and move on. I had a few (one or

two) parts that also had this look and simply took a scotchbrite pad to it and

the primer did stick. No big deal as there are lots of other way harder things

to worry about.



Cheers,

Jay

Fuse panel ribs



Time: 	04:26:00 AM PST US

From: 	"Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>

Subject: 	Surface Corrosion?

      

      Les's issue with corrosion reminded me of a topic I wanted to solicit

      opinions from the list.    I attended a RV builder's class a couple weeks

      ago at Grov-Air in Indy.   Troy Grover, the gentleman conducting the

class

      stated that he has seen several RVs that have significant corrosion along

      the lines were the vinyl wrap was removed by a soldering iron.   His

      conclusion was that dirt was collecting in the edge of the vinyl and

      absorbing moisture.   He stated that he's seen this in the last couple

kits

      that have come through his shop.

      

      

      Since my empennage kit is in route at the moment, I am thinking about the

      approach I want to take.  My current desire is to leave the vinyl on as

long

      as possible to minimize scratching.

      

      

      Does anyone know of anyone that has experienced corrosion along the lines

of

      the vinyl that were cut with a soldering iron?

      

      

      It seems like the only way to prevent the issue that Les has discovered

is

      to remove the vinyl when you inventory, but I would think would have

      disastrous effect of the quality of the surface.

      

      

      I am very interested in hearing on how Van's handles Les's issue.   I am

      optimistic that they will replace the part for Les.



__________________________________________________

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