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ELT? 406 vs 121.5

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ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: ELT? 406 vs 121.5

The 406 ELT's provide more precise position

information to satellites, with a 2 mile dia search

area vs ~ 12 miles for 121.5. They also transmit a

unique code that can be looked up in a database and

show contact info, etc. The GPS 406 systems offer a

less than 0.5 nm radius as they transmit position as

well.



False error rate for 121.5 is ~ 97%, with 94% turned

on at airports. Because the potential search radius is

so large, and the signal is anonymous, lot's of

resources can be spent looking for potential downed

planes (that end up tied down at the airport). 



With 406, they can call your contact info, or call the

tower and ask if your N number is on the field, or

just departed, etc. This makes it much more likely

that you will get an emergency response that makes a

difference.



As an example, what if you were flying and crashed 10

miles away before you could get a mayday out? With a

406 beacon, then would start calling contact info,

home field, etc. If they called the field, and they

said you just left and could not raise you - then the

calvary could be sent out faster looking for you (and

have a good idea where to start). 



Same situation with 121.5, you crashed close enough to

the airport that they might assume you are another of

the 97% false alarms and not do anything initially

other than call the tower (who would ask local traffic

to check their ELT and see if they hear 121.5). 



I'm not sure how many successful rescues, or even if

faster would make much of a difference. But if faster

closure is reached with family and friends than I

think it is worth it. 



http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-060405-037.doc



If you are traveling over water, or remote areas, a

personal ELT is not a bad investment. This one is less

than 700 bucks and is 406 + GPS, all in a small, water

proof case. Bring it with you while hiking, biking,

kayaking, climbing, etc. I have an older 121.5

personal ELT but am considering upgrading.



http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/136072/0/0/406%20ELT/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0



Happy Holidays,



Eric

40150. Fuselage kit moving slowly, but I've started on

my IFR ticket...

--- rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>

 

 While we're on the subject, is there any real

 compelling reason to 

 install a 406Mhz ELT (other than the obvious

 COSPAS-SARSAT discontinued 

 service in 02/09?).  I don't recall ever hearing of

 a GA aircraft being 

 located with the assistance of satellites, and I'm

 not clear if this is 

 a mandate.  One other question...is one mfg. of ELT

 considered "trash" 

 whereas another as "treasure"?

 

 Brian

 #40308

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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: ELT? 406 vs 121.5

Personally, I'm going to go with a PLB for now and a standard ELT in the

aircraft.  Reasoning being that the price of the aircraft 406 should

come down a bit over the next few years and I would rather have a PLB as

I like to do a lot of out of the way things where there is no help if

you run into trouble.  If something would ever happen in the aircraft

before I switch to a 406 ELT, hopefully I will still have the option of

deploying the PLB and getting the same level of service.  In other words

still be conscious and able to reach the PLB.



Michael Sausen

-10 #352 limbo



--

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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: ELT? 406 vs 121.5

Effective Jan 1 07 boaters are no longer authorized to use 121.5 beacons;  this should take down the amount of false beacon reports...but I'm sure many  boaters will continue to turn on their beacon accidentally and many will  continue to be 121.5...

  

 Eric, even if the beacon is located near an airport, AFRCC does not ignore  it, they will call the local airport owner/tower etc., and also the local CAP ES  officer to investigate after two rotations...been on a number of these false  beacons in parked aircraft, one was on the local hospital helo pad--hard landing  set it off and it was so foggy the crew could not get back to base but we got  called out and found the hot ELT... AFRCC does not know if the  plane/boat/personal EPRB is in a hangar, driveway, tied down or just  crashed near the airport.  

  

 Please keep in mind that most off field landing happen within 5 nm radius  of airports.  With the accuracy of the current 121.5 system and even the  newer GPS units investigations will continue to be called but hopefully with a  little more accuracy.  Also keep in mind that many ELT's do not activate  due to a number of reasons after an impact..poor power, antenna crushed,  etc.  So continue to file before your flights or at least let someone know  you're flying and where you're headed incase you become over due.

  

 P

  

  

  [quote][b]

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ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: ELT? 406 vs 121.5

Hi,



Thanks for the info. Do you have more details or a

story of an off airport ELT at a crash site? I suspect

many are interested in the process.



I recall the numbers were 94% airports and ~ 3% for

boats, etc. Marine ELT's don't have a shock sensor so

I suspect the false rate is lower as a result. Didn't

know about the expiration date for Marine, thanks.



How long for 2 rotations? I'm sorry if I implied that

a search would not be instigated for an ELT near an

airport. It does sound like it would take awhile to

spin up a full search unless they had more specific

info (like flight plan, or ground report of crash,

overdue, etc).



Have you taken part in any 406 ELT searches? Is the

procedure different?



Thanks! Eric



--- GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Effective Jan 1 07 boaters are no longer authorized

 to use 121.5 beacons;  

 this should take down the amount of false beacon

 reports...but I'm sure many  

 boaters will continue to turn on their beacon

 accidentally and many will  

 continue to be 121.5...

  

 Eric, even if the beacon is located near an airport,

 AFRCC does not ignore  

 it, they will call the local airport owner/tower

 etc., and also the local CAP 

 ES  officer to investigate after two

 rotations...been on a number of these 

 false  beacons in parked aircraft, one was on the

 local hospital helo pad--hard 

 landing  set it off and it was so foggy the crew

 could not get back to base but 

 we got  called out and found the hot ELT... AFRCC

 does not know if the  

 plane/boat/personal EPRB is in a hangar, driveway,

 tied down or just  crashed near 

 the airport.  

  

 Please keep in mind that most off field landing

 happen within 5 nm radius  of 

 airports.  With the accuracy of the current 121.5

 system and even the  newer 

 GPS units investigations will continue to be called

 but hopefully with a  

 little more accuracy.  Also keep in mind that many

 ELT's do not activate  due to a 

 number of reasons after an impact..poor power,

 antenna crushed,  etc.  So 

 continue to file before your flights or at least let

 someone know  you're flying 

 and where you're headed incase you become over due.

  

 P

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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: ELT? 406 vs 121.5

This may only be interesting to Eric, but I'll initially put a note to  all...

  

 CAP is generally the service that AFRCC calls along with other  agencies.  If it's along the shore line or over the water the Coast Guard  and it's aux are called into service.  The satellite generally takes 60  minutes per rotation.  As a rule if the hit occurs between the hour and 5  minutes past the hour the hit is ignored as this is the ELT test period each  hour.  Additionally, if an ELT hit occurs with 121.5 system, the first  rotation is generally ignored, as it's often considered a false hit.  If  the same area hits the second rotation...an hour later then that generally will  trigger an event. But if one is reported over due and AFRCC is involve  the first hit may trigger a CAP call out...there are no real standards as AFRCC  and CAP are tasked to find downed airmen. 

  

 How long does it take CAP to respond?  Generally with in two hours of  an AFRCC call out we launch at least one search plane.  That's a   flight crew of two to three people, plus an Incident Commander, ground crew, a  radio base person etc.  this could be as few as 3 people and more than  likely it will be a group of 5-7 people, in the initial call up, plus  the Wing Commander and his staff will be involved.  So the initial call out  generally will involve a fairly good sized group.

  

 The 406 hit develops a bundle of information as you point out and the  search agency can follow up the bundle information easier, as to location,  aircraft, owner/contacts etc.  Also a flight plan is a vital piece of the  puzzle.  Additionally, there are often reports from families, friends  etc that an aircraft is over due and that can trigger a search or augment the  initial search and put various agencies on alert to search specific  areas.  For CAP to generally get involved, they need to be tasked by AFRCC  with a mission event.  But as a Mission Pilot, every time I fly, I crank up  121.5 on both Comm and on our search equipment and occasionally do receive hits.  

  

 CAP is transitioning it's equipment to the 406 search equipment as are many  pilots with their ELT's.  Our newer planes have a unit made by Becker that  searches both 121.5 and 406 and several other frequencies. Additionally while  this is great stuff, there is nothing that takes the place of a good set of  trained eyes and good search pattern control.  And when all come together,  electronic, pattern search and visual we hope to get lucky and find someone and  send in help via a ground team.

  

 Each CAP unit's breakdown on percentage of search type...planes vs.  personal/boat ELT is different.  I'm in a coastal state and you cannot  imagine how often it's boaters and their maintenance folks we're called out  on.  The stat's are a bit a kilter because one generally only refers to the  find ratio vs.the ELT hit.  

  

 In reality what happens, we get a call out...the plane fly's down locates  the boat/boathouse by flying over the target...them a ground team is  dispatched...the guys working on the boat see us flying relatively low over  their yard/area and then think to check their ELT...they turn off the ELT, the  ground team then arrives, they do the ground search...no ELT going...so there is  not a find and the boaters are not counted.  In reality for us, about 75%  of our call outs are boaters but they only comprise a couple of percent of  actual finds.

  

 As you probably know, CAP is more than looking for downed aircraft...after  last weeks snow storm in Colorado and Kansas CAP planes spotted a number of  stranded motorist and sent in help and these were line searches along highways  both interstate and local roads.  No ELT work but rescue work with other  state agencies.

  

 As you are packing and creating your plane, please have a survival bundle  on board...water, a bit of food, something to signal with, basic first  aide/tools, something to keep warm, matches, insect repellent, etc...these  could be as important to you as the latest gizmo on the panel.  You can do  this yourself for very little money...just occasionally check your expiration  dates on your stuff...and update your several liters of water as it may go off  just sitting in the bag.  My personal 2 week survival bag is an old gym bag  and weight about 10 lbs.  It's considered as 10 lbs of basic equipment  and is always on board.  Hope you can do the same as you get flying in  your RV 10.

  

 Patrick

  

 do not archive

  

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