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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

I have seen a photo of several GPS antennas mounted on a plate under the cowl of an RV (sweet installation). I researched the archives but can’t seem to find it. Can anyone direct me to that image or builders log?  

I am replacing my 296 for a 396 and wish to do a similar installation. My biggest concern is the Garmin GXM 30A antenna under the cowl with the heat. Garmin list price for replacing that antenna... $495.00 Sure hate to BBQ that unit. Comments/Suggestions?  

   

Thanks,  

Robin  

RV-6A 325 hours. Fresh Annual, Adding 396  

      [quote][b]

walter(at)tondu.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

On 01/01  8:12, Robin Marks wrote:



 >    I have seen a photo of several GPS antennas mounted on a plate under the

 >    cowl of an RV (sweet installation). I researched the archives but can't

 >    seem to find it. Can anyone direct me to that image or builders log?

 > 

 >    I am replacing my 296 for a 396 and wish to do a similar installation. My

 >    biggest concern is the Garmin GXM 30A antenna under the cowl with the

 >    heat. Garmin list price for replacing that antenna... $495.00 Sure hate to

 >    BBQ that unit. Comments/Suggestions?



I copied mine from Dan.



See entry dated 10/19/04 on this page for the tray and entry 

10/21/04 on the same page.



http://www.rv7-a.com/avionics_panel_3.htm

-- 

Walter Tondu

http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!

http://www.evorocket.com - Building

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Don't mount it on the right (passenger) side of the firewall.  It will

interfere with putting the hinge pins in.



Ron Lee

LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Tracy Saylor said he measured the highest temperature at the upper rear  corner of his RV-6 cowl at 35 degrees F over ambient at the worst  case.  He checked this before he installed his GPS antenna in that  location.

  

 Regards,

 Jim Ayers

  

 In a message dated 01/01/2007 5:23:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,  robin1(at)mrmoisture.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        

I have seen a photo    of several GPS antennas mounted on a plate under the cowl of an RV (sweet    installation). I researched the archives but canâ€™t seem to find it. Can anyone    direct me to that image or builders log?   

I am replacing my 296    for a 396 and wish to do a similar installation. My biggest concern is the    Garmin GXM 30A antenna under the cowl with the heat. Garmin list price for    replacing that antenna... $495.00 Sure hate to BBQ that unit.    Comments/Suggestions?   

Thanks,   

Robin   

RV-6A 325 hours.    Fresh Annual, Adding 396

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

I wonder if that measurement excercise included the heat soak after

shut-down?  My -6A cowl can get too hot to touch over the cylinders

after a few minutes on the ground post-flight, but I guess the cowl

aft of the rear baffles is much cooler than that, even then.



-Stormy



On 1/2/07, LessDragProd(at)aol.com <LessDragProd(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Tracy Saylor said he measured the highest temperature at the upper rear

 corner of his RV-6 cowl at 35 degrees F over ambient at the worst case.  He

 checked this before he installed his GPS antenna in that location.



 Regards,

 Jim Ayers



 In a message dated 01/01/2007 5:23:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,

 robin1(at)mrmoisture.com writes:



 I have seen a photo of several GPS antennas mounted on a plate under the

 cowl of an RV (sweet installation). I researched the archives but can't seem

 to find it. Can anyone direct me to that image or builders log?



 I am replacing my 296 for a 396 and wish to do a similar installation. My

 biggest concern is the Garmin GXM 30A antenna under the cowl with the heat.

 Garmin list price for replacing that antenna... $495.00 Sure hate to BBQ

 that unit. Comments/Suggestions?



 Thanks,



 Robin



 RV-6A 325 hours. Fresh Annual, Adding 396

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

As sweet as the cowl install was going  to be I opted for placing the antenna in the baggage area after considering the  potential of having to replace a $500 antenna plus the time to re-rout to a new  location. I spoke with Garmin this morning and their operating range for  GXM 30A antenna is -40 to +185 F. It seems like  we can get close to +185F under the cowl or in a closed Tip Up in  Texas/Arizona. Heck, sometimes it feels like 185 F in the shade in  Texas. 

I have a feeling that the standard tear drop Garmin GPS  antenna may be more heat resistant than the GXM 30A.  

Thanks for the suggestions & photos. 

Robin  [quote][b]

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Robin Marks wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   As sweet as the cowl install was going to be I opted for placing the 

 antenna in the baggage area after considering the potential of having 

 to replace a $500 antenna plus the time to re-rout to a new location. 

 I spoke with Garmin this morning and their operating range for GXM 30A 

 antenna is -40 to +185 F. It seems like we can get close to +185F 

 under the cowl or in a closed Tip Up in Texas/Arizona. Heck, sometimes 

 it feels like 185 F in the shade in Texas.



 I have a feeling that the standard tear drop Garmin GPS antenna may be 

 more heat resistant than the GXM 30A. 



 Thanks for the suggestions & photos.



 Robin




	


Just out of curiosity, what color is the antenna? If it's black (or any 

dark color) & under a closed canopy, it could easily approach 200 

degrees on a sunny day...

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

At 05:41 PM 1/2/2007, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  As sweet as the cowl install was going to be I opted for placing the antenna in the baggage area after considering the potential of having to replace a $500 antenna plus the time to re-rout to a new location. I spoke with Garmin this morning and their operating range for GXM 30A antenna is -40 to +185 F. It seems like we can get close to +185F under the cowl or in a closed Tip Up in Texas/Arizona. Heck, sometimes it feels like 185 F in the shade in Texas.

 	


 Just remember that GPS satellites are moving and are all over the sky.  Any metal

 will block signals.



 Ron Lee



     [quote][b]

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

How do you get a clear view of the satellites if  your antenna is in the baggage bay under a metal skin?

  

 Garry Stout

  

 [quote]   ---

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

With a tip-up canopy, you could mount the GPS  antenna on a little shelf sticking out beside the cabin frame support  channel.

  

 Or, if you're slick, you could cut a little  "window" in the top of the support channel and install the antenna IN the  channel.

  

 All that said, my main GPS antenna is under the  cowl.

  

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D (1166 hours)

 www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com

 [quote]   ---

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

In a message dated 01/02/2007 7:38:42 PM Central Standard Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Or, if you're slick, you could cut a little "window" in the top of the support channel and install the antenna IN the channel. 	


 >>>

  

 Or if you're REALLY slick, stick it on top of the support:

  

 http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5419

  

 Mark  

 do not archive

  [quote][b]

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

wdleonard(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Dan, I thought your GPS antennas were under the fore-deck under fiberglass.  I liked the idea so much I also cut a hole in my for-deck, and covered it with fiberglass.  I plan to mount all my satellite antennas under there. 

  

 Dave Leonard



Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY

My websites at:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html

 http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html

http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com 

 

 On 1/2/07, Dan Checkoway <dan(at)rvproject.com (dan(at)rvproject.com)> wrote: [quote]  With a tip-up canopy, you could mount the GPS antenna on a little shelf sticking out beside the cabin frame support channel.

  

 Or, if you're slick, you could cut a little "window" in the top of the support channel and install the antenna IN the channel.

  

 All that said, my main GPS antenna is under the cowl.

  

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D (1166 hours)

 www.rvproject.com /  www.weathermeister.com

 [quote] ---

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

I do have GPS and XM antennas under there (under  the access panels).  It's just my primary panel mounted GPS antenna that's  under the cowl.  The other antennas "seemed" more fragile in terms of  temperature tolerance, and I didn't want yet a few more firewall  penetrations.

  

 Under cowl temps can get quite hot when the plane  is sitting after a flight in the summertime.  I don't buy the 35F over  ambient thing...

  

 )_( Dan

 [quote]   ---

LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Hi Dan,

  

 The next time you see Tracy Saylor, you might mention that to him.   

  

 Jim

  

 In a message dated 01/02/2007 8:32:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,  dan(at)rvproject.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I do have GPS and XM antennas under there (under    the access panels).  It's just my primary panel mounted GPS antenna    that's under the cowl.  The other antennas "seemed" more fragile in terms    of temperature tolerance, and I didn't want yet a few more firewall    penetrations.

    

   Under cowl temps can get quite hot when the plane    is sitting after a flight in the summertime.  I don't buy the 35F over    ambient thing...

    

   )_( Dan

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

rv8(at)lazy8.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Dan Checkoway wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		               I don't buy the 35F over ambient thing...

    

   )_( Dan

 	
 

 Before you say something like that Dan, you should try actually measuring it. I have, and got similar results to Tracy's.

 

 John 

 

 

 [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		       ----- Original Message ----- 

     From:     David Leonard (wdleonard(at)gmail.com) 

     To:     rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)     

     Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:53 PM

     Subject: Re: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

     

     

     Dan, I thought your GPS antennas were under the fore-deck under fiberglass.  I liked the idea so much I also cut a hole in my for-deck, and covered it with fiberglass.  I plan to mount all my satellite antennas under there. 

      

     Dave Leonard

     

 Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY

 My websites at:

     http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html

     http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html

     http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com     

  

     On 1/2/07, Dan Checkoway <dan(at)rvproject.com (dan(at)rvproject.com)> wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                With a tip-up canopy, you could mount the GPS antenna on a little shelf sticking out beside the cabin frame support channel.

        

       Or, if you're slick, you could cut a little "window" in the top of the support channel and install the antenna IN the channel.

        

       All that said, my main GPS antenna is under the cowl.

        

       )_( Dan

       RV-7 N714D (1166 hours)

       www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com

        	  Quote: 	
		           ----- Original Message ----- 

         From:         Garry (garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com) 

         To:         rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)         

                           Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 5:06 PM

         Subject: Re: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

         

  

         How do you get a clear view of the satellites if your antenna is in the baggage bay under a metal skin?

          

         Garry Stout

          

          	  Quote: 	
		             ----- Original Message ----- 

           From:           Robin Marks (robin1(at)mrmoisture.com) 

           To:           rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)           

           Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:41 PM

           Subject: RE: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

           

  

           

As sweet as the cowl install was going to be I opted for placing the antenna in the baggage area after considering the potential of having to replace a $500 antenna plus the time to re-rout to a new location. I spoke with Garmin this morning and their operating range for GXM 30A antenna is -40 to +185 F. It seems like we can get close to +185F under the cowl or in a closed Tip Up in Texas/Arizona. Heck, sometimes it feels like 185 F in the shade in Texas.            

I have a feeling that the standard tear drop Garmin GPS antenna may be more heat resistant than the GXM 30A.            

Thanks for the suggestions & photos.           

Robin            	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">

http://forums.matronics.com



	
         



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">

http://forums.matronics.com



	
         

       	
               	  Quote: 	
		  



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

http://forums.matronics.com



	
       

       

     	
     

     

          

 -- 

      	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
   

	
 [b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Dan,

  

 If you are saying that it gets hotter than that, I agree.  There is quite a bit of engine heat that accumulates behind the baffle from the exhaust and oil sump.  I also believe the curves -- without engine heat.

  

 I have a very simple GPS antenna installation.  The Garmin 295 is mounted in the panel. A 6 inch length of RG-400 goes to a BNC bulkhead connector on the glareshield (sliding canopy). The portable antenna from the 295 then sits on the topside of the connector.  It has always gotten good reception.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/2/2007 11:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I do have GPS and XM antennas under there (under the access panels).  It's just my primary panel mounted GPS antenna that's under the cowl.  The other antennas "seemed" more fragile in terms of temperature tolerance, and I didn't want yet a few more firewall penetrations.

  

 Under cowl temps can get quite hot when the plane is sitting after a flight in the summertime.  I don't buy the 35F over ambient thing...

  

 )_( Dan

	


 

  [quote][b]

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Interesting.  Still call me a skeptic, but I  agree about measuring it.  I'll get some nonreversible temperature strips  from McMaster and see what it hits.

  

 http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=519   (middle of that page)

  

 )_( Dan

  

 [quote]   ---

phil(at)petrasoft.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

I have two GPS antennas mounted on my glare shield (slider canopy).  They both get great reception.  At first I thought they might be a distraction, but that fear was unfounded.  I never notice them while flying.



Godspeed,



Phil Birkelbach

RV-7 - 727WB

www.myrv7.com



On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:53 AM, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     

  

 Dan,

  

 If you are saying that it gets hotter than that, I agree.  There is quite a bit of engine heat that accumulates behind the baffle from the exhaust and oil sump.  I also believe the curves -- without engine heat.

  

 I have a very simple GPS antenna installation.  The Garmin 295 is mounted in the panel. A 6 inch length of RG-400 goes to a BNC bulkhead connector on the glareshield (sliding canopy). The portable antenna from the 295 then sits on the topside of the connector.  It has always gotten good reception.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/2/2007 11:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, dan(at)rvproject.com (dan(at)rvproject.com) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I do have GPS and XM antennas under there (under the access panels).  It's just my primary panel mounted GPS antenna that's under the cowl.  The other antennas "seemed" more fragile in terms of temperature tolerance, and I didn't want yet a few more firewall penetrations.

  

 Under cowl temps can get quite hot when the plane is sitting after a flight in the summertime.  I don't buy the 35F over ambient thing...

  

 )_( Dan

	


 

  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
	




 [quote][b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

Dan and Phil,

  

 Same here, Phil.  I have a compass up there anyway, so I can't even see the GPS antenna.

  

 Dan, I was referring to the heat after engine shutdown.  As I reread my post I see that that could be interpreted as meaning while flying.  I didn't mean that.

  

 do not archive.

  

 Dan H

  

 In a message dated 1/3/2007 11:49:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, phil(at)petrasoft.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have two GPS antennas mounted on my glare shield (slider canopy).  They both get great reception.  At first I thought they might be a distraction, but that fear was unfounded.  I never notice them while flying.  

  

 Godspeed,

 

 Phil Birkelbach

 RV-7 - 727WB

 www.myrv7.com

 

  On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:53 AM, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

  

 Dan,

  

 If you are saying that it gets hotter than that, I agree.  There is quite a bit of engine heat that accumulates behind the baffle from the exhaust and oil sump.  I also believe the curves -- without engine heat.

  

 I have a very simple GPS antenna installation.  The Garmin 295 is mounted in the panel. A 6 inch length of RG-400 goes to a BNC bulkhead connector on the glareshield (sliding canopy). The portable antenna from the 295 then sits on the topside of the connector.  It has always gotten good reception.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/2/2007 11:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, dan(at)rvproject.com (dan(at)rvproject.com) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I do have GPS and XM antennas under there (under the access panels).  It's just my primary panel mounted GPS antenna that's under the cowl.  The other antennas "seemed" more fragile in terms of temperature tolerance, and I didn't want yet a few more firewall penetrations.

  

 Under cowl temps can get quite hot when the plane is sitting after a flight in the summertime.  I don't buy the 35F over ambient thing...

  

 )_( Dan

	


 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	




="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com/



	
	


 

  [quote][b]

Rick Galati

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Lake St. Louis MO.

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Re: GPS Antenna Under Cowl

 	  robin1(at)mrmoisture.com wrote: 	
		  I have seen a photo of several GPS antennas mounted on a plate under the cowl of an RV (sweet installation). I researched the archives but canâ€™t seem to find it. Can anyone direct me to that image....My biggest concern is the Garmin GXM 30A antenna under the cowl with the heat. Garmin list price for replacing that antenna... $495.00 Sure hate to BBQ that unit. Comments/Suggestions? ..... 	




When I planned my GPS antenna installation, I contacted Garmin about those concerns and was assured heat is not an issue. The major caution they advised was simply avoiding the application of metallic paint on the cowl directly above the antenna.  If using a metallic paint, they suggested leaving a flat black or other non-metallic coating directly above and around the antenna's light of sight. With 200 operational hours, my installation has proved to be trouble free.  Signal acquision is within moments of firing up.  I have never lost a signal in flight or even on the ground for that matter.  



I have found it is usually best to simply contact the manufacturer with my technical concerns as opposed to wading through a lot of opinion on open forums.  Do yourself a favor and contact Garmin for your own peace of mind.  Enclosed is an attachment of the under-the-cowl shelf I fabricated from .032 stock for my GPS antenna.  I played around with cardboard patterns until I had the design I wanted.

 

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4637/gps220bk2.jpg



Rick Galati  RV-6A  "Darla"

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