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Ignition noise leaks

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dcreech3(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

QUOTE FROM ROBERT LAIRD:  "A good ICOM or Vertex handheld radio should be 

more than adequate for your needs...   The rubber ducky antenna -- assuming 

you don't have any ignition noise leaks on your plane -- is quite good for 

airport and plane-to-plane communication."



This leads me off on a tangent about the "ignition noise leaks".  My 

handheld Yuasa worked okay in my 503-powered Firestar II for years, but then 

got so that when I transmit, all I seem to put out is engine noise. 

(Reception is still okay).  I had the radio overhauled with no improvement. 

Could something have changed about the engine -- i.e., an "ignition noise 

leak" that wasn't there before?  If this is a possibility, what should I 

look for?



Lee



_________________________________________________________________

 	  Quote: 	
		  From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has 

it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

Well, sure... your spark plug wires/caps will decay over time and cause radio noise leaks (and other bad stuff).  Your grounding could be degrading... all kinds of possibilities, unfortunately.



  -- Robert

 On 1/9/07, LEE CREECH <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com (dcreech3(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "LEE CREECH" <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com (dcreech3(at)hotmail.com)>



QUOTE FROM ROBERT LAIRD:  "A good ICOM or Vertex handheld radio should be

more than adequate for your needs...   The rubber ducky antenna -- assuming 

you don't have any ignition noise leaks on your plane -- is quite good for

airport and plane-to-plane communication."



This leads me off on a tangent about the "ignition noise leaks".  My

 handheld Yuasa worked okay in my 503-powered Firestar II for years, but then

got so that when I transmit, all I seem to put out is engine noise.

(Reception is still okay).  I had the radio overhauled with no improvement. 

Could something have changed about the engine -- i.e., an "ignition noise

leak" that wasn't there before?  If this is a possibility, what should I

look for?



Lee



_________________________________________________________________ 



[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

| Could something have changed about the engine -- i.e., an "ignition 

noise

| leak" that wasn't there before?  If this is a possibility, what 

should I

| look for?

|

| Lee



Lee:



A couple neglected items:



1-antenna coax cable.  Make sure it is in good shape, as well as the 

BNC connectors.  Check it out with a good multimeter.



2-headset.  I blamed my buddys' poor radios for my inability to hear 

them clearly.  Come to find out my headset wire was inop.  Changed 

headsets to the DRE6000 ANR and my radio problems went away.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

I guess what we need to know is, what sort of electrical stuff does the 

airplane have on it? If we eliminate what it doesn't have, then it is easier 

to focus on possible problems.

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

do not archive



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

Lee, Did you accidentally get B8ES plugs instead of BR8ES? Have you got the metal caps on your spark plugs? Is your handheld run off batteries or ships power?



Rick



On 1/9/07,  LEE CREECH <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com (dcreech3(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "LEE CREECH" <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com (dcreech3(at)hotmail.com)>



QUOTE FROM ROBERT LAIRD:  "A good ICOM or Vertex handheld radio should be

more than adequate for your needs...   The rubber ducky antenna -- assuming 

you don't have any ignition noise leaks on your plane -- is quite good for

airport and plane-to-plane communication."



This leads me off on a tangent about the "ignition noise leaks".  My

 handheld Yuasa worked okay in my 503-powered Firestar II for years, but then

got so that when I transmit, all I seem to put out is engine noise.

(Reception is still okay).  I had the radio overhauled with no improvement. 

Could something have changed about the engine -- i.e., an "ignition noise

leak" that wasn't there before?  If this is a possibility, what should I

look for?



Lee



_________________________________________________________________ 



	


-- 

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

A friend of mine had the same problem with a 503 and Icom handheld...  Icom told him that the handheld is very voltage sensitive and wouldn't handle the higher voltage the regulator was putting out...  He installed some kind of resister and the Icom transmitted perfectly... 



DVD



On 1/9/07, LEE CREECH <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com (dcreech3(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "LEE CREECH" <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com (dcreech3(at)hotmail.com)>



QUOTE FROM ROBERT LAIRD:  "A good ICOM or Vertex handheld radio should be

more than adequate for your needs...   The rubber ducky antenna -- assuming 

you don't have any ignition noise leaks on your plane -- is quite good for

airport and plane-to-plane communication."



This leads me off on a tangent about the "ignition noise leaks".  My

 handheld Yuasa worked okay in my 503-powered Firestar II for years, but then

got so that when I transmit, all I seem to put out is engine noise.

(Reception is still okay).  I had the radio overhauled with no improvement. 

Could something have changed about the engine -- i.e., an "ignition noise

leak" that wasn't there before?  If this is a possibility, what should I

look for?



Lee

[b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

dcreech3(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

It doesn't have much.  No battery, starter or strobe, just a Key West 

rectifier/regulator which powers the handheld and GPS.  I do use BR8ES 

resistor plugs. Unplugging the radio from ship's power doesn't improve 

matters.



Lee

[quote]From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Ignition noise leaks

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:23:49 -0500






I guess what we need to know is, what sort of electrical stuff does the 

airplane have on it? If we eliminate what it doesn't have, then it is 

easier to focus on possible problems.

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

do not archive



---

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

Since you are using resistor plugs, that is not likely the problem.

(I do not use resistor plugs, and have no ignition noise problems. Another 

thread...)

There are several sources for electrical noise. All of them center around 

wires carrying alternating current to somewhere in the cockpit or near the 

antenna. DC wires do not normally carry anything that makes noise. The 

easiest way to get rid of radio noise is to shield any wires carrying A/C, 

like kill switches and tach.

For your kill switch wires, try using microphone cable. Typically, it is two 

or three wires inside a tinfoil or woven shield. Ground one end of the 

shield to the engine, do not ground the other end of the shield. Same for 

the tach.

If your Key West is a long way from the engine, then your unshielded A/C 

wires are acting as an antenna between the engine and the Key West. Shield 

those wires and ground them at the engine end, especially if they are close 

to the antenna.



If the noise rises and falls as you rev the engine, then it might be 

ignition, but in my experience, ignition is a small component of overall 

radio noise. Most of the noise comes from wires in the harness that are 

carring alternating current from within the magneto, typically the tach and 

kill switch wires.



If you are using an external antenna, consider switching to a rubber duck. 

Experiment with the external antenna grounded/ungrounded to the airframe and 

see if anything changes. And when using the radio seperate from the aircraft 

power supply, make sure the radio batteries are hot.

Let us know what you find out - got to build up the database ya' know...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

At 06:15 PM 1/10/07 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



For your kill switch wires, try using microphone cable. Typically, it is two 

or three wires inside a tinfoil or woven shield. Ground one end of the 

shield to the engine, do not ground the other end of the shield. Same for 

the tach.


	


Lee,



I found most of my problems stemmed from the kill switch wires.  After I put 

the kill switches back on the engine and activated them with woven fish 

line, I had no ignition noise in the radio.  Shielding as Richard states 

will be a big help and may be easier than moving the kill switches.  You may 

want to use very small coax cable.  It might be a little lighter.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

dcreech3(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

The wiring harness that includes the kill switch and tach wires does in fact 

run near the radio, (along the bottom left side of the cockpit) but that 

didn't seem to be an issue until SOMETHING changed.



Lee

[quote]From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Ignition noise leaks

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:15:29 -0500






Since you are using resistor plugs, that is not likely the problem.

(I do not use resistor plugs, and have no ignition noise problems. Another 

thread...)

There are several sources for electrical noise. All of them center around 

wires carrying alternating current to somewhere in the cockpit or near the 

antenna. DC wires do not normally carry anything that makes noise. The 

easiest way to get rid of radio noise is to shield any wires carrying A/C, 

like kill switches and tach.

For your kill switch wires, try using microphone cable. Typically, it is 

two or three wires inside a tinfoil or woven shield. Ground one end of the 

shield to the engine, do not ground the other end of the shield. Same for 

the tach.

If your Key West is a long way from the engine, then your unshielded A/C 

wires are acting as an antenna between the engine and the Key West. Shield 

those wires and ground them at the engine end, especially if they are close 

to the antenna.



If the noise rises and falls as you rev the engine, then it might be 

ignition, but in my experience, ignition is a small component of overall 

radio noise. Most of the noise comes from wires in the harness that are 

carring alternating current from within the magneto, typically the tach and 

kill switch wires.



If you are using an external antenna, consider switching to a rubber duck. 

Experiment with the external antenna grounded/ungrounded to the airframe 

and see if anything changes. And when using the radio seperate from the 

aircraft power supply, make sure the radio batteries are hot.

Let us know what you find out - got to build up the database ya' know...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

At 10:45 PM 1/10/07 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



The wiring harness that includes the kill switch and tach wires does in fact 

run near the radio, (along the bottom left side of the cockpit) but that 

didn't seem to be an issue until SOMETHING changed.




	


Lee,



Try another headset.  May be a ground shield has broken loose.  My radio has 

an automatic noise reduction feature.  Check to see if yours is 

inadvertently turned off.  Borrow a different radio and try it to see if it 

picks up the same noise.  If so, you know it is not your radio. Etc. The 

only way to find out what it is to eliminate possibilities until the cause 

becomes obvious.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

rap(at)isp.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

I used BRE8S plugs for a while on my last  ultralight and had alot higher plug failure rate than the B8ES plugs. Lucky all  the failures were on the ground. Scared me off the resator plugs. Rick Pearce  MK3C

 [quote]   ---

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Ignition noise leaks

I'm with you. If the electrical system is done right, resistor plugs don't  really help the radio much, and considering the small spark plug gap that  Rotax calls for, the spark plugs apparently need all the energy they can get,  not more resistance. 

 Yet Rotax specifies them, and lots of people use them, so what do I  know? 

  

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Ignition noise leaks

Re: Ignition noise leaks



This one caught me once.  When I changed engines I ran into radio problems as well as a tach problem.  Since I had a new engine I put a new tach on it. Well, the tach didn't work too well so I sent it off to Westach and they tested it.  It was fine. They asked me if my engine was grounded to the airframe and it turns out it wasn't.  



Once I grounded my engine and all the shields from the wires to a central point on the airframe, my tach worked great and the radio noise was much reduced.



By the way Westach charged me $0.00 and paid the shipping to return my tach to me.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

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