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jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

So far I've successfully avoided any need to contact ATC in an Ultralight.  But after selling my Quicksilver and buying a Kolb I intend to go places and do things starting this Spring.



When calling tower or Approach in an "N" numbered aircraft you might use a callsign like "Experimental 3252Y" or "Cessna 1234T", but what about an Ultralight?  "Kolb Ultralight" sounds too short.  What should I use for a callsign?



What do YOU use for a callsign?  Maybe Richard Pike could shed some light on this . . .



Thanks,

Jim

N. Idaho

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

Back when I had my Hummer, and before I got it "N" numbered, at that time 

you also had to have a Radio Station License onboard to use a transceiver. I 

sent in for an FCC license and just put Hummer Ultralight on the appropriate 

line. It came back "24790U" so I always checked in "Hummer Ultralight 

90Uniform" and everybody was happy.

Since a station license is no longer required, not sure what the current 

protocol is.

Unless someone else on the list can help, looks like time for a "Google" 

search to me....



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Ultralight Callsign

Hi,

    When I fly into Airports , or Fields ...I use "Experimental 381PM "



 Then after first call.... I use ... One ,Poppa, Mike



 They usually call me just  "Poppa Mike"



 ( it's nice to have yer name in the phonetic alphabet )

.

.



 Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN  FSII / N381PM

PS  if you are a "True" ultralight....be careful which airports you drop in on

 I know Anoka airport around here doesn't want ANY planes without "N" numbers....

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Ultralight Callsign

Do your kids call you Papa Mike also?



My Kolb is an Ultralight, not an experiemental and doesn't have an N-number so I can't use that type of call sign.



 	  planecrazzzy wrote: 	
		  Hi,

    When I fly into Airports , or Fields ...I use "Experimental 381PM "



 Then after first call.... I use ... One ,Poppa, Mike



 They usually call me just  "Poppa Mike"

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Ultralight Callsign

No guessing about Callsigns, the AIM is very specific on what you use for a Callsign in an aircraft:

4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs 



a. Precautions in the Use of Call Signs. 



1. Improper use of call signs can result in pilots executing a clearance intended for another aircraft. Call signs should never be abbreviated on an initial contact or at any time when other aircraft call signs have similar numbers/sounds or identical letters/number; e.g., Cessna 6132F, Cessna 1622F, Baron 123F, Cherokee 7732F, etc. 



EXAMPLE-

Assume that a controller issues an approach clearance to an aircraft at the bottom of a holding stack and an aircraft with a similar call sign (at the top of the stack) acknowledges the clearance with the last two or three numbers of the aircraft's call sign. If the aircraft at the bottom of the stack did not hear the clearance and intervene, flight safety would be affected, and there would be no reason for either the controller or pilot to suspect that anything is wrong. This kind of "human factors" error can strike swiftly and is extremely difficult to rectify. 



2. Pilots, therefore, must be certain that aircraft identification is complete and clearly identified before taking action on an ATC clearance. ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist. When aware of similar/identical call signs, ATC specialists will take action to minimize errors by emphasizing certain numbers/letters, by repeating the entire call sign, by repeating the prefix, or by asking pilots to use a different call sign temporarily. Pilots should use the phrase "VERIFY CLEARANCE FOR (your complete call sign)" if doubt exists concerning proper identity. 



3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha. 



EXAMPLE-

1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.



2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact). 

_______

So by the book, I am "Kolb 49KK Experimental" on initial contact when talking to a tower facility and I drop the "Experimental" on subsequent calls to the same frequency. 



When I call Ground Control first, I am "Kolb 49KK Experimental" on the initial call and "Kolb 49KK" on subsequent calls to Ground.



When I switch frequency to the Tower, I am "Kolb 49KK Experimental" on the initial call and "Kolb 49KK" on subsequent calls to Tower.



Why have I only included "Experimental" in my initial calls to Tower Facilities and not said anything about Approach Control, Center or Flight Service Stations? Well that's because of the following FAR exerpt:



Â§ 91.319   Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.

(d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimental certificate shallâ€”

(1) Advise each person carried of the experimental nature of the aircraft; 

(2) Operate under VFR, day only, unless otherwise specifically authorized by the Administrator; and 

(3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers. 



You can see that we are only required to Notifly the Tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft and no other facility.



At all other times, my callsign is "Kolb 49KK". 



As for the Ultralight Kolb's among us, the above does not apply. But lacking any other guidance for the FAA, using the same format of "aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name" and include Ultralight so that ATC knows you don't have an "N" number can't be to far off base.



It is a very stringent requirement that the FAA has put on Ultralight vehicles that want to operate in certain airspace:

Â§ 103.17   Operations in certain airspace.

No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.



The required authorization is required to be obtained while the ultralight is still on the ground and the ATC Facility contacted will give specific instructions to the ultralight vehicle operator.

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

kfackler(at)ameritech.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

 	  Quote: 	
		  >"Kolb Ultralight" sounds too short.  What should I use for a callsign?


	


I don't say this is the 'right' answer, but it is 'an' answer.



Pretty much everyone in the thumb area of Michigan has at least an ASC or

EAA registration number. We use those when calling Flight Service, Pontiac,

Flint, and Selfridge as well as on all unicoms. Seems to work well.



-Ken Fackler

Kolb Mark II / N722KM

Rochester MI

cstonex(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

You could try ..."heyyou .... idiot in the tower......."




 	  Quote: 	
		  >"Kolb Ultralight" sounds too short.  What should I use for a callsign?


	


I don't say this is the 'right' answer, but it is 'an' answer.



Pretty much everyone in the thumb area of Michigan has at least an ASC or

EAA registration number. We use those when calling Flight Service, Pontiac,

Flint, and Selfridge as well as on all unicoms. Seems to work well.



-Ken Fackler

Kolb Mark II / N722KM

Rochester MI



_________________________________________________________________

Don’t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

Re: "idiots in control tower." Some ex-ATC Kolbers wouldn't like that!

regards,

Bob N.    FireFly 070 Old Kolb

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/



do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

| Re: "idiots in control tower." Some ex-ATC Kolbers wouldn't like 

that!

| regards,

| Bob N.



Hi Bob:



Doesn't sound like anyone who has every talked to a tower before.



john h

mkIII



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

cstonex(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

well then maybe we could say something like "Rodger Dodger, 10-4 good 

buddie..... Kolb jocket over and out!" or "Kolb to tower, Kolb to tower. 

come in Tower. Over" It worked on science fiction movies in the 60's and 

that was on TV too!



ever notice how some people forget to enjoy life and laugh once in a while. 

Rule 62; "Don't take yourself so damed seriously"



LEBTF

Chuck


  | Re: "idiots in control tower." Some ex-ATC Kolbers wouldn't like

that!

| regards,

| Bob N.



Hi Bob:



Doesn't sound like anyone who has every talked to a tower before.



john h

mkIII



DO NOT ARCHIVE



_________________________________________________________________

FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo – buy and sell with people 

you know

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

John -



Thanks for the clarity of your response.  I've been

thinking about a problem that many of us "formerly fat

ultralights but now E-LSAs" might have.



As I understand the AIM, my call sign should be:

MaxAir Drifter one-niner-six-four Charlie.



HOWEVER - almost no one outside the ultralight arena

knows what a MaxAir Drifter is, so it doesn't tell

them anything about my speed in the pattern, which is

a key factor in separation at non-towered airports.  I

land at 35 -38 mph...  



So should those of us flying E-LSAs be using

"Experiemental Light Sport" in our call sign (which is

then dropped after the first announcement.)  The AIM

doesn't seem to address this.



Arty Trost

Sandy, Oregon



--- John Williamson <kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net>

 

 No guessing about Callsigns, the AIM is very

 specific on what you use for a Callsign in an

 aircraft:

 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft

 type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the

 digits/letters of the registration number. When the

 aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the

 prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four

 Alpha. 

 

 EXAMPLE-

 1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.

 

 2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit

 "Experimental" after initial contact). 

 _______

 

 

 So by the book, I am "Kolb 49KK Experimental" on

 initial contact when talking to a tower facility and

 I drop the "Experimental" on subsequent calls to the

 same frequency. 

 

 When I call Ground Control first, I am "Kolb 49KK

 Experimental" on the initial call and "Kolb 49KK" on

 subsequent calls to Ground.

 

 When I switch frequency to the Tower, I am "Kolb

 49KK Experimental" on the initial call and "Kolb

 49KK" on subsequent calls to Tower.

 

 Why have I only included "Experimental" in my

 initial calls to Tower Facilities and not said

 anything about Approach Control, Center or Flight

 Service Stations? Well that's because of the

 following FAR exerpt:

 

 Â§ 91.319   Aircraft having experimental

 certificates: Operating limitations.

 (d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an

 experimental certificate shallâ€”

 (1) Advise each person carried of the experimental

 nature of the aircraft; 

 (2) Operate under VFR, day only, unless otherwise

 specifically authorized by the Administrator; and 

 (3) Notify the control tower of the experimental

 nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft

 into or out of airports with operating control

 towers. 

 

 You can see that we are only required to Notifly the

 Tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft and

 no other facility.

 

 At all other times, my callsign is "Kolb 49KK". 

 

 As for the Ultralight Kolb's among us, the above

 does not apply. But lacking any other guidance for

 the FAA, using the same format of "aircraft type,

 model or manufacturer's name" and include Ultralight

 so that ATC knows you don't have an "N" number can't

 be to far off base.

 

 It is a very stringent requirement that the FAA has

 put on Ultralight vehicles that want to operate in

 certain airspace:

 Â§ 103.17   Operations in certain airspace.

 No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within

 Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or

 within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of

 Class E airspace designated for an airport unless

 that person has prior authorization from the ATC

 facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

 

 The required authorization is required to be

 obtained while the ultralight is still on the ground

 and the ATC Facility contacted will give specific

 instructions to the ultralight vehicle operator.

 

 --------

 John Williamson

 Arlington, TX

 

 Kolbra, 912ULS

 http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=95114#95114
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List



 Web Forums!



 

 

 

 


	




www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com



"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                      Helen Keller



"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

In a message dated 2/14/2007 9:44:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,  cstonex(at)msn.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

well    then maybe we could say something like "Rodger Dodger, 10-4 good    

buddie..... Kolb jocket over and out!" or "Kolb to tower, Kolb to tower.    

come in Tower. Over" It worked on science fiction movies in the 60's and    

that was on TV too!



ever notice how some people forget to enjoy    life and laugh once in a while. 

Rule 62; "Don't take yourself so damed    seriously"



	


 

         

        Chuck,

  

      Flying   and  Dying   are  serious !     

  

                Ed  ( Firefly # 62)         Do NOT  Archive !

  [quote][b]

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

At 07:17 PM 2/14/2007, John Williamson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



It is a very stringent requirement that the FAA has put on Ultralight 

vehicles that want to operate in certain airspace:

Â§ 103.17   Operations in certain airspace.

No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class 

C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface 

area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has 

prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that 

airspace.



The required authorization is required to be obtained while the ultralight 

is still on the ground and the ATC Facility contacted will give specific 

instructions to the ultralight vehicle operator.


	


I've never heard that.  As I've always understood it, "prior authorization" 

can be obtained while airborne, as long as you contact ATC before entering 

their airspace.  Do you have a cite for the ground contact requirement?



Of course, if you don't have a radio you have to call them from the ground 

first (a few weeks ago we flew PPG's with no radio inside (near the edge, 

but inside) Class D airspace.  We told them where we would be flying, and 

how high (under 200' that day) and they had no problem with it.



                                 -Dana

--

--

Don't put it off, procrastinate today.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

---

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

Arty --



I can't imagine it would be any different than what the rules say.   I

flew an N-numbered experimental for a couple of years that had all the

flight characteristics of an E-LSA and used the method John so

splendidly described.  It occurred to me many times as I was

approaching or in the pattern that word "experimental" seems to

automatically make GA pilots think of you as slow, which is not a bad

thing.  However, I was passed many times by other experimentals going

faster than the Bonanza's... but I'll admit those are probably the

exceptions that make the rule.



So just stick with what the current AIM says until/unless they update it.



  -- Robert



P.S.  So many experimentals do not have recognizable manufacturer

names to GA pilots, so my instructor told me just to say "Experimental

Two Two Six Niner Juliet" rather than "Aventura Two Two Six Niner

Juliet Experimental"... and that's what I did in a variety of Class D

and Class C airspaces, and every pattern, and I never, ever had anyone

-- pilot or ATC -- suggest it was wrong or should be different.  And

it was/is a WHOLE lot simpler, too.  So, that's typically what I use

now, even when I fly an ultralight.



On 2/14/07, TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 John -



 Thanks for the clarity of your response.  I've been

 thinking about a problem that many of us "formerly fat

 ultralights but now E-LSAs" might have.



 As I understand the AIM, my call sign should be:

 MaxAir Drifter one-niner-six-four Charlie.



 HOWEVER - almost no one outside the ultralight arena

 knows what a MaxAir Drifter is, so it doesn't tell

 them anything about my speed in the pattern, which is

 a key factor in separation at non-towered airports.  I

 land at 35 -38 mph...



 So should those of us flying E-LSAs be using

 "Experiemental Light Sport" in our call sign (which is

 then dropped after the first announcement.)  The AIM

 doesn't seem to address this.



 Arty Trost

 Sandy, Oregon



 --- John Williamson <kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 > 

 > <kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net>

 >

 > No guessing about Callsigns, the AIM is very

 > specific on what you use for a Callsign in an

 > aircraft:

 > 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft

 > type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the

 > digits/letters of the registration number. When the

 > aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the

 > prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four

 > Alpha.

 >

 > EXAMPLE-

 > 1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.

 >

 > 2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit

 > "Experimental" after initial contact).

 > _______

 >

 >

 > So by the book, I am "Kolb 49KK Experimental" on

 > initial contact when talking to a tower facility and

 > I drop the "Experimental" on subsequent calls to the

 > same frequency.

 >

 > When I call Ground Control first, I am "Kolb 49KK

 > Experimental" on the initial call and "Kolb 49KK" on

 > subsequent calls to Ground.

 >

 > When I switch frequency to the Tower, I am "Kolb

 > 49KK Experimental" on the initial call and "Kolb

 > 49KK" on subsequent calls to Tower.

 >

 > Why have I only included "Experimental" in my

 > initial calls to Tower Facilities and not said

 > anything about Approach Control, Center or Flight

 > Service Stations? Well that's because of the

 > following FAR exerpt:

 >

 > § 91.319   Aircraft having experimental

 > certificates: Operating limitations.

 > (d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an

 > experimental certificate shall—

 > (1) Advise each person carried of the experimental

 > nature of the aircraft;

 > (2) Operate under VFR, day only, unless otherwise

 > specifically authorized by the Administrator; and

 > (3) Notify the control tower of the experimental

 > nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft

 > into or out of airports with operating control

 > towers.

 >

 > You can see that we are only required to Notifly the

 > Tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft and

 > no other facility.

 >

 > At all other times, my callsign is "Kolb 49KK".

 >

 > As for the Ultralight Kolb's among us, the above

 > does not apply. But lacking any other guidance for

 > the FAA, using the same format of "aircraft type,

 > model or manufacturer's name" and include Ultralight

 > so that ATC knows you don't have an "N" number can't

 > be to far off base.

 >

 > It is a very stringent requirement that the FAA has

 > put on Ultralight vehicles that want to operate in

 > certain airspace:

 > § 103.17   Operations in certain airspace.

 > No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within

 > Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or

 > within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of

 > Class E airspace designated for an airport unless

 > that person has prior authorization from the ATC

 > facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

 >

 > The required authorization is required to be

 > obtained while the ultralight is still on the ground

 > and the ATC Facility contacted will give specific

 > instructions to the ultralight vehicle operator.

 >

 > --------

 > John Williamson

 > Arlington, TX

 >

 > Kolbra, 912ULS

 > http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 >

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=95114#95114

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > browse

 > Subscriptions page,

 > FAQ,

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 >

 > Web Forums!

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com



 "Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                       Helen Keller



 "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

At 10:51 PM 2/14/2007, TheWanderingWench wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



As I understand the AIM, my call sign should be:

MaxAir Drifter one-niner-six-four Charlie.



HOWEVER - almost no one outside the ultralight arena

knows what a MaxAir Drifter is...


	


Generally you'd say "Maxair" or "Drifter" but not both... but most of the 

experimental guys I know would just identify as "Experimental 

one-niner-six-four-Charlie".  If the tower needs to know more they'll ask.



I can't remember where, but I seem to recall something about ultralights 

being suggested to use the word "ultralight", a number (I think it was the 

pilot's birth year but I could well be mistaken) and initials... 

"Ultralight five niner Delta Hotel".



                                 -Dana



--

--

Don't put it off, procrastinate today.

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

Get it registered with the EAA as I have mine now even though its FAT  I feel I needed something to announce my Approach /Departure and any other movements I had to do  around any airports Just seemed to make things safer in my mind 

 But I am going to be getting  N numbered  this spring as I have been taking Ground school lately and I will be getting legal after 16 years of flying I guess my free flying time is about to end  

 Hey then mabe I can build me a 4 place Kolb with a 12 inch tail boom tube, Aluminum wings,O235 Might have to call it a John Hauck Special for the long cross countrys  Wududa You Guys think? ...... LOL....... I just might be serious, ask my friends

 

 Original Firestar E008EB

 Ellery

 

 do not archive  [quote][b]

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

Dana --

I agree, I don't think he will find a citation requiring it to be

while on the ground... it can be done in the air.   And this leads to

a funny story....

Years ago, I wanted to fly into an airport that was

Class-E-to-the-surface, so, being the proper UL pilot, I called ATC

for prior authorization.  The ATC guy first asked if I had a radio and

I said yes.  He asked why didn't I call in the request while I was in

the air, and I said that I wasn't sure if that was okay.  He said sure

it was just fine.  Then I said that I usually don't fly high enough to

be able to contact ATC (he laughed).  So I again asked him if it would

be okay to fly in there, and he said sure...  Then -- always being

careful about government types and their rules and regs -- I said, but

how will the people at the airport know that you gave me prior

authorization?  His answer, in a warm, Texas drawl, was, "Well, you

just tell 'em that BUD said it was okay."

So, that's my "in" from now on.  If I ever get in trouble, I just tell

them that Bud at Houston Center said it was "okay."   hehehehehe

  -- Robert

On 2/14/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 07:17 PM 2/14/2007, John Williamson wrote:

 >

 >

 >It is a very stringent requirement that the FAA has put on Ultralight

 >vehicles that want to operate in certain airspace:

 >§ 103.17   Operations in certain airspace.

 >No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class

 >C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface

 >area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has

 >prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that

 >airspace.

 >

 >The required authorization is required to be obtained while the ultralight

 >is still on the ground and the ATC Facility contacted will give specific

 >instructions to the ultralight vehicle operator.

 I've never heard that.  As I've always understood it, "prior authorization"

 can be obtained while airborne, as long as you contact ATC before entering

 their airspace.  Do you have a cite for the ground contact requirement?

 Of course, if you don't have a radio you have to call them from the ground

 first (a few weeks ago we flew PPG's with no radio inside (near the edge,

 but inside) Class D airspace.  We told them where we would be flying, and

 how high (under 200' that day) and they had no problem with it.

                                  -Dana

 --

 --

 Don't put it off, procrastinate today.

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>



 John -



 As I understand the AIM, my call sign should be:

 MaxAir Drifter one-niner-six-four Charlie.


	


For Experimental or E-LSA, Kolb would not be the manufacturer unless Elmer

Kolb built and N-numbered your aircraft.  Technically the builder is the

person that assembled it.    Also, don't include the model in the call

sign.  You never hear Cessna 182 147PG as a callsign, it would be Cessna

147PG.  I would also not say "Experimental Light Sport".  Too many words. 

I would stick to Experimental.



That said, an "Experimental Trost 1964C" would tell them even less about

the aircraft so if I were you I would just say "Experimental 1964C".



I think Approach will still want to know if you're experimental.  I

believe there is something in clarification of Experimental Operating

Limitations that ATC was the one that could clear you for flying over

densely populated areas.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Â§ 103.17   Operations in certain airspace.

> No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within

> Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or

> within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of

> Class E airspace designated for an airport unless

> that person has prior authorization from the ATC

> facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

>

> The required authorization is required to be

> obtained while the ultralight is still on the ground

> and the ATC Facility contacted will give specific

> instructions to the ultralight vehicle operator.


	


The above makes no requirement to obtain authorization while still on the

ground.  You can get authorization by radio to deviate from the

transponder/mode C requirement for Class B & C.  If you don't have a radio

it would have to be from the ground.  If you don't have a Xpdr/mode C

installed, it can be 1 hour prior (either by air or on the ground).  It

doesn't make sense but if your installed transponder is inop you can ask

on the radio and get immediate clearance without Xpdr or C.



Jim

N. Idaho

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: Ultralight Callsign

Do you think GW would mind if I used "Kolb One"?



 	  Quote: 	
		   I don't say this is the 'right' answer, but it is 'an' answer.



 Pretty much everyone in the thumb area of Michigan has at least an ASC or

 EAA registration number. We use those when calling Flight Service,

 Pontiac,

 Flint, and Selfridge as well as on all unicoms. Seems to work well.

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

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