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akflyer
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 Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: changing thread names etc |
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I know some of you are very passionate about changing a thread name, but do you really know when you should do it???
The purpose of a forum with THREADS is so someone can ask a question or bring up an issue, and you can talk about it by replying IN THAT THREAD. This keeps the entire "conversation" inline and easy to follow. If at some point in the thread you may happen to see a fellow reply and it jogs your memory on another unrelated story, you THEN start another thread about that OFF TOPIC reply.
A little wandering here and there in a thread kinda helps to keep it interesting for me, but other thin skinned individuals seem to really get tore up about about it. We need to be thoughtful of these guys as some of them are getting up in age and WE darn sure dont want to be the ones that send them to the hospital with chest pains as the off topic stuff can be quite strenuous to read.
I see ALOT of guys that are creating a new thread, putting was bla bla bla in the title then continuing on with the same conversation that should have stayed in the original thread. These threads can get to be many pages long, and that is fine. I am a member of lots of different forums on lots of different subjects and this one is by far the worst one for changing thread titles. I find one long thread much easier to read and find information in, that 57 scattered threads with 2 posts each... not to mention trying to read a digest in the morning with your first cup of coffe.. is this... was that...
I know, I know.. if I dont like I can leave right.. well guess what, there WAY TO MUCH valuble info traded every day for me to want to leave. (plus I want to get my donations worth) I just want to try and help make it better.
just my $1.25... I know its alot but I typed way too much for it to only be .02
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: changing thread names etc |
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I have some thoughts regarding Leni's post - this will be mostly be in the
"etc." catagory.
First let me say that I am probably one of the old guys - probably in more
ways than I want to admit. Actually I have never really worried too much
about changning thread names. This is probably due to the version of the
list I prefer. What I do have trouble with, though, is the posts,
apparently to the forum version of the list, where the original post or at
least a previous post is not appended. There have been lots of times I
found I had no idea what was being talked about. And unless the subject was
very compelling or the poster had a compelling history in my mind, I just
hit the delete key as clicking on the forum link on the bottom just is not
my way of doing things.
Maybe this is age related, but I think more accurately it is habit related.
This list has been part of my morning routine since 1994 the year after I
started building. Until recently that was the way it was done with all
participants. Send a post and it arrives at all subscribers mail boxes and
any reply is appended to the previous post. I read everything. If a new
subject heading was made - no problem. I understand that not removing the
previous posts on a reply can make large archival files and leaving the
appended posts on long threads is discouraged, but on every post I received
I could easily bring myself up to speed on what is being discussed. Maybe
just a bad habit and old dogs and new tricks, I suppose.
There seems to be a "new breed" (not my term, I might add) of contributors
that as Leni suggests are participating on lots of forums and are quite
comfortable with this new version of an old list. What I wonder as I
continue to hit the delete key is this. Is it incumbant on the "old" guys
to adapt to the way the new gius like doing things, or should it be the
other way around. I think a bit of respect for some tradition would be
quite appropriate. Not to mention respect for the habits of the likely 300
or so old time lurkers who are used to the way it has always worked.
I could probably name about 20 past contributors who would be on my must
read list when they posted who are no longer with us or may still lurk with
rare posts. Experienced builders with lots of wise counsel to offer who
found for one reason or another that staying with the list was simply not
worth the effort. I have also had private notes from valued current list
members who have signed off in frustration only to come back in the hope
things had improved, and others who are a click away from leaving forever.
I confess at times to those feelings as well.
I don't know what the ansewers are, but I think some serious thought might
be given to what people hope the list is or will become. It is informal
despite the "List Janitors" as they refer to themselves or "List Nazis" as
the more free spirited have called them, but it is never-the-less evolving
and as I see it it can go only two ways, for better or for worse. I suspect
that some of this has to do with the lag in new builders precipitated by the
demise of Skyster Aircraft and the build up to speed of Kitfox LLC. Where
in the past most participants were builders, it would appear that the more
vocal of recent participants did not in fact build their airplanes and that
in itself has changed the domographic of the list at least in those who
participate. We are told from time to time that we have about 400 list
subscribers and we can probably count only about 20 or thirty that
contribute regularly.
I did a brief count one day and found that one newly added member had
contributed close to 400 times in his first three months of participation
and this person was not a builder but a recent buyer, actually new to the
Kitfox. The posts were often interesting, but just as often simply off the
mark as far as good usable information was concerned - much reminiscent of
a forum type chat room.
I have met and enjoyed lots of folks through the e-mails posted and feel I
have good friends in most parts of the US and elsewhere who I have never met
face to face, and there are a dozen or so more who I do most of my flying
with who are not on the list and I have spent long hours in their company as
well - flying along side and on the ground.
This is not a swan song, but I feel compelled to remind everyone that we
each have a part in making this list work. If the majority is of the
opinion that it should be more of a chat room filled with banter and such,
that will be fine with me in my absense and I suspect others as well. If it
is to remain as a technical forum with posts related to the building and
flying of Kitfox aircraft (Avid and others welcome) Then that is fine also
and mirrors the feelings of most that have sent me private e-mails.
Thanks to Leni for introducing a bit of philosophical list talk.
P.S. After re-reading my post, the thought came to me that Mat Dralle
administers lots of lists. It might work for those interested in a more
chatty version to contact him and start a forum more suited to their needs.
I lurked - and still do - on the Matronics version of the Lancair list and
haven't had a post from that list for a year or more. Maybe that one could
be renamed the Kitfox-Avid pilots list or something similar and there would
be something for everyone.
Lowell
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akflyer
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: changing thread names etc |
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The point of my post was not to start another "list" or "Forum" but to try and make the currentone more user friendly. When you look at the forum page scroll down the first page and you may see what I meen. in more than one case, ther is a thread asking a question, and a different thread withthe answer. My goal would be to get those two together.
AS far as respect. For the most part, I was brought up to respect my elders and even a suggestion for an argument could get you something you did not want.. or something that may take a few seconds to minutes to wake up from... Just ask eskflyer lol..
With that being said, just as we have gone (for the most part) from open cockpit bi-planes to space travel, so have the workings of the net. For the most part, things have been changed to make it faster and easier to use. I also resist change and was pretty pissed when my puter did an automatic update to IE 7.. till I figured out how to use it and make it do what I wanted.
I did have my emails set get every update.. now it is a sometimes hard to follow digest. In reality, it is much easier to just click your favorites and have a cool forum come up that you can EASILY see the topics and read through... till you see.... is this.... was that ..... should have been this but was really named that...
If you want to talk about a fuel tank, you can
1) search "fuel tank" or scroll down the page till you see the topic, click it, then read it and see if your question was answered. If not reply to THAT thread bringing it and your NEW question about the fuel tank to the top for all to see and maybe learn from.
2) start another thread cause you are more like me and want someone to answer YOUR question within the next 30 seconds cause you dont have all day to sit around and surf the net... wait.. I do surf all day...but I want it answered right now anyway.
3) look for a thread that sounds like something you want to look at, then start another thread that begins with "was fuel tank now.. does any one know anything about a tank that may hold fuel"
or
4) get discusted cause it has been brought up approximately 3478 times in the last year so you start a thread that begins with "was fuel tank now is hey dumb a$$ do a search for it.
As you can see they all will eventually get your question answered but one of the options is pretty clean and does not start more clutter.
I say we need to meet in the middle.. I want to learn from you about thse wonderful planes, and maybe you can get up to speed and learn something that makes the forum humm along a little easier.
your call on what you choose to do, just tossing out an idea, not a fight starter.
I do hope you can see that I have a wee bit of a sence of humour and would really like to see other try and find theirs and not get so uptight about the littlest of things..
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: Re: changing thread names etc |
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I read the list on the internet http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=ab1531ee468c5f957cadfc1a88256cd1 so I don't have to start and stop the email subscription when I travel. I have come to prefer this method over the emails because this is so easy and well organized. Some aspects of this system do continue to be somewhat of a mystery to me though.
My question is to those that read the email versions. Are my replies coming with a topic heading? Can you easily tell what topic I am replying to? Do I need to do something different to make life easier for those trying to follow the threads I reply to?
Tom Jones, computer neyophite
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fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.ne
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: changing thread names etc |
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Tom, probably the vast majority of the list members are still using the
email version of Matronics, including myself. It's what we've always used,
it's what we're used to, and we're comfortable with it. It's very simple to
edit in/out parts of the previous message so that the reader knows exactly
what is being discussed. The subject line alone doesn't always reflect
that.
As for the internet forum version, it's fine too if that is what you prefer.
However, it would help everyone concerned if you used the "quote" feature
when replying to a message. There's a quote button on every message and
it's simple to use. Please don't forget the "do not archive" also when
appropriate.
Deke
List Admin
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