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John H Murphy

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Henderson, NV

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common or rare experience?

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

I have twice...

  

 First time there was a piece of something in the carb. bowl on my 503 and it blocked my fuel flow, landed in a field...

  

 Second time, my belt drive shaft broke and the prop fell off, landed in a field...  Oops, guess that really isn't an engine out, more like a prop out...

  

 DVD



 

 On 2/23/07, John H Murphy <jhm9812(at)yahoo.com (jhm9812(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John H Murphy" <jhm9812(at)yahoo.com  (jhm9812(at)yahoo.com)>



Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common or rare experience?

[b]

_________________
Ã´Â¿Ã´

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

At 12:29 PM 2/23/2007, John H Murphy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common or rare experience?


	


Twice in my Taylorcraft (one total, valve seat came loose, one partial, 

contaminated fuel)... got down OK both times.  We won't count the number of 

times in the PPG where it's generally a non event.  The previous owner of 

my Ultrastar had one, when the diaphragm in a replacement fuel pump was bad 

from the start... he put it down on the runway but broke a landing gear leg.



                                 -Dana

--

--

But, Officer, a broadsword is hardly a concealed weapon!

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Who has had an engine out in flight?

3 engine outs for me.  The first two was a loose wire attached to the coil on my 377. The 377 had been converted to CDI.



The third was on my brand spanking new 447. With 4 hours on the engine I was flying the pattern and the engine just stopped.  It was a bad CDI unit.   The unit passed all diagnostic tests using an OHM meter but it didn't work.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

blackbird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Who has had an engine out in flight?

I have had 5 engine outs in the last 10 years of flying Rotax engines....all were on a 532 with all of the mods....including aftermarket CDI....but single ignition..



Kolbra will have DUAL ignition...



All were due to the CDI unit failing.......Never tore the aircraft up....but....IT certainly gives a new meaning to situational awareness....



Pickup coil failed.....Internal wire on the winding broke.....I'm one of them who would take the time to literally unwind it....LOL

Wayne McCullough

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

My engine quit 5 minutes into a 130 mile XC flight (not in a Kolb) and I

landed safely at a theme park.  It turns out corrosion had been shaving

material off the plastic follower on the points until it quit.  Replaced

parts and took off 4 hours later and completed the XC.



I sorta had one in my Kolb (self-induced).  I ground-adjusted the prop to

reduce max RPM and did not tighten down the center hub enough.  It went to

low rpm and would only get to 3000 rpm (not nearly enough for SAL). 

Fortunately I was in the pattern and had just turned downwind after taking

off so made a landing in the opposite direction that I had just taken off.



I have also had several power losses all within 5 miles of my home field. 

In each case I was able to limp back to the field.  I finally figured out

the problem.



It appears engine failures are quite common in ultralights.  Of the 4 of

us that fly ULs at my home field, we had 5 engines quite cold in a 30-day

period at the end of last Summer.  So far, we only know what caused 3 of

them.



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common or rare experience?

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

Only one so far when the valve in the primer bulb decided it was time to break loose. Fortunately it chose four feet off the runway and it was all a non event although at the time it was exciting. Had it occured the day before when I was cruising down the Arkansas River at  100 feet it would have been a different story.  The 582 was undamaged and continues on. 



Rick



On 2/23/07, blackbird <blackbird754(at)alltel.net (blackbird754(at)alltel.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "blackbird" <blackbird754(at)alltel.net (blackbird754(at)alltel.net)>



I have had 5 engine outs in the last 10 years of flying Rotax engines....all were on a 532 with all of the mods....including aftermarket CDI....but single ignition.. 



Kolbra will have DUAL ignition...



All were due to the CDI unit failing.......Never tore the aircraft up....but....IT certainly gives a new meaning to situational awareness....



Pickup coil failed.....Internal wire on the winding broke.....I'm one of them who would take the time to literally unwind it....LOL 

Wayne McCullough





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=96898#96898

 

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

We won't count the number of times in the PPG where it's generally a 

non event.



 Non event provided your not down wind of your LZ 



 It's 6:1 glide don't get ya real far in a head wind ...8-(

  And them down wind landings when a Thermal pops cant be too healthy 

either....



  The only real thing ya got going for you is your Very Portable and 

carry along a

 Huge Hanky every time you fly.....



  It's used to wipe up the mess you leave when your Canopy Collapses too 

close to the deck..... 8-(



 Dana

  Flying a wing that's prone to collapse is Not for the Birds...  

HAHAHAHAHA



  20 years in the soaring sports makes one appreciate a wing with 

bones...



 Flying fish not Jelly fish 



 Mark



________________________________________________________________________

across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

You guys need to take up GOLF  hahahha



Mark Vaughn



--

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

I would, but I don't have the balls for it...

  

 DVD

  

 do not archive



 

 On 2/23/07, knowvne(at)aol.com (knowvne(at)aol.com) <knowvne(at)aol.com (knowvne(at)aol.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: knowvne(at)aol.com (knowvne(at)aol.com)



You guys need to take up GOLF  hahahha 



Mark Vaughn



[b]

_________________
Ã´Â¿Ã´

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

HAHAHAHAA



Mark Vaughn



--

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

At 09:29 AM 2/23/07 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common or rare experience?


	


John,



One engine out on the 447.  From my flight log:



"June 25, 2001  Flight 144 - 3 minutes, 57:36 tt.  Tried the aluminum foil 

and acrylic glue on the axles and it seemed to work.  Pulled it out and went 

flying.  Took off to the south on the center taxiway.  Climbed at 6400 rpm 

at 50 mphi.  Just about 1500 agl the engine rpm dropped 200, and I jiggled 

the throttle and it quit.  Banked 180 and headed for the airport at 40 mphi. 

 I jigged a little to see if there was something under me that I could land 

on, but it was all tall corn and beans.  I made it to with in 100 yards of 

the airport and landed in a bean field with the rows where the beans were 

about six inches high.  Took off all my gear and put it in the storage 

compartment so I would not get too hot.  Pulled on the rope and it started.  

Got in and taxied to the end of the bean field next to the airport but had 

to turn east to avoid a drainage ditch.  There was a another smaller ditch 

next to the main runway, so I shut down the engine and pushed the mains into 

the ditch, and then grabbed the tail boom and swung the tail across the 

ditch and pulled the main gear up on the edge of the main runway.  Started 

it and taxied it back to the hanger.  Tied the tail to the pickup with my 

tie down ropes and started it up.  Got in and ran it up to 5600 rpm for 

several minutes and it never missed a beat.  Shut it down and put it in the 

hangar."



Found scuffed piston.  Had to replace one piston and ring set.  Caused by 

excessive carbon build up underneath the piston rings.



Two carburetor ice problems on 447. From my flight log:



"October 29, 2001 - Flight 196 - 20 minutes - 1 gallon - 70:01 tt.  Wanted 

to do some slow flight testing but while I was at 2000 agl running the 

engine at 4500 rpm, the carburetor iced up.  I was in cool moist air that is 

sliding up from the south along a stationary front.  It was hazy, and I 

should have known better.  I had to do a lot of jigging on the throttle to 

keep it running and to get the engine running at power.  Cruised back to the 

airport at 5000 rpm and 200 fpm down.  Had to make three right hand spirals 

to get down to pattern altitude and land on the center taxiway.  No problems 

in the warmer air with closing the throttle." 



This was a little more exciting than indicate above.  I was five miles south 

of the airport over the Mississippi River bottoms.  No one lives there 

although there all kinds of roads to land on, so it was important to point 

the FireFly north and nurse it back toward home.  I found I could not get 

the engine to pick up if I opened the trottle in the mormal manner.  By 

jigging it back and forth I got it to pick up a little.



"February 17, 2002 - Flights 219, 220, and 221 - 6.75 gallons of fuel - 112 

minutes - 79:00 tt.  Flew down to Painton for the EAA meeting, 56 minutes - 

2.75 gallons.  I had a good tail wind.  Took off to return to Perryville 

airport and at about 200 feet the engine started to droop.  Made a 180 and 

landed down wind, taxied to the end of the runway and tried it again.  I may 

have had a little ice in the carburetor.  The second time it climbed out 

just fine and I flew on to Perryville."



I warmed the engine up for an extended peroid of time as I was getting in my 

flight gear and talking to other EAA'ers before heading back.  There had 

been a heavy rain the night before so everything was wet and the humidity 

was very high.



Disconnected throttle cable to the Victor 1+. From my flight log:



"April 23, 2006 - Flight 590 - 5 minutes, (estimated) - 200:45 tt, Victor 1+ 

120:45 - Nice wind right down runway 25.  FireFly levitated.  Climbed to 500 

feet agl and reduced engine speed to 5,000 rpm.  I was having trouble 

finding a thermal to keep the climb positive.  Added throttle to get on up 

to 1,000 feet, and the engine dropped to an idle.  I was too far and low to 

spin it around and do a downwind on 7, so turned south to find a place as 

close to Greenville Pike as I could.  Found a green strip that looked like a 

property line, but as I got closer, it looked very rough so I elected to 

land in a corn stalk field with the rows.  Did not seem to land all that 

hard but I bent the right landing gear leg.  I was less than 300 feet from a 

house along the Pike. I walked over and banged on the door but no one was 

home.  I walked next door and found the same.  As I was walking away the 

owners came home and loaned me a cell phone so I could call Louise.  I got 

the recording.  At that time two other fellows showed up.  They had been 

working in a woods not far a way and saw me go down.  They gave me a ride 

back to the airport.  



I took the pick up home to get some rugs, padding, etc.  Rory was brush 

hogging.  I waved to him and he went home and got his pickup.  Louise went 

back with me.  We took the wings off the FireFly and placed them on top of 

the pickup boxes with rug padding.  Held them on with straps, and took them 

to the hangar.  Then we went back and to get the fuselage.  I folded the 

tail and placed in the pickup bed with the tailgate down.  Used two straps 

to the front corners of the box to pull the FireFly by the tail wheel 

assembly.  Then one strap as hooked back at the bumper hitch hole and 

brought forward over the tailgate and hooked to the same location as the 

first two straps.  All were made tight, and the FireFly was towed four miles 

back to the airport.  It trailed very well.



The throttle linkage came loose at the spit connector.  I had re-lubricated 

the forward cable and it looks like the oil wicked up the cable and into the 

connector.  The connectors has very fine threads, so I never thought to 

safety it.  Bad Move!!!!



Now I will have to remove the left landing gear leg and get it straightened. 

The leg is bent up and back.  It was the up wind leg and it hit the ground 

first.  I do not remember hitting hard.  I consider myself lucky in that 

there was no damage caused to the tail by the corn stalks."



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



do not archive

John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Who has had an engine out in flight?

I have been flying Kolbs for the last 11 years with a 377 and then a 503. No engine outs. In the 8 years before that, I had two engine outs. Both with engines that someone else had rebuilt. I prefer engines that are either new, or that I have seen the inside of.

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Who has had an engine out in flight?

Jack, your logs are great. such detail. You should put them all online. I would spend all day reading them.



Mine are more like:  "saw hot air ballon."   "Very smooth air."



I want to know more about this:  

"June 25, 2001 Flight 144 - 3 minutes, 57:36 tt. Tried the aluminum foil 

and acrylic glue on the axles and it seemed to work"  <<< I can't even imagine what this does!

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

At least with certificated US made engines, it's a VERY rare occurrence . I've had two, in 4800 hours -- a Continental 0-300 that was 40 years old, swallowed a valve. Apparently the LL fuel can cause this. Got to an airport.Second was a very low-time Lycoming 0-380 A1A, an engine with a bulletproof reputation. Oil leak we couldn't duplicate on the ground. Make it to a nursery (trees, not kids)

Any engine can quit. Do everything you can to avoid this (how obvious is that??) by following  the manufacturer's instructions & using only best quality fluids. IMHO



On Feb 23, 2007, at 12:29 PM, John H Murphy wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John H Murphy" <jhm9812(at)yahoo.com (jhm9812(at)yahoo.com)>

Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common or rare experience?

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=96881#96881





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 [b]

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Who has had an engine out in flight?

Clyde Poser runs an Authorized Rotax repair station near Puyallup WA (he is also a DAR for trike/fixed wing LSA).  He told me he has seen lots of used Rotaxes that the new owner was told were in great condition prior to purchase.   The new owner buys them and they crap out shortly thereafter.  If you can't buy new, his recommendation is to by a runout engine and have it rebuilt.  That way you know what you have.



 	  John Jung wrote: 	
		  I have been flying Kolbs for the last 11 years with a 377 and then a 503. No engine outs. In the 8 years before that, I had two engine outs. Both with engines that someone else had rebuilt. I prefer engines that are either new, or that I have seen the inside of.

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

In a message dated 2/23/2007 5:02:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  kinnepix(at)earthlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  At least    with certificated US made engines, it's a VERY rare occurrence . I've had two,    in 4800 hours -- a Continental     0-300 that was 40 years old, swallowed a valve. Apparently the LL    fuel can cause this. Got to an airport.    Second was a very low-time Lycoming 0-380 A1A, an engine with a    bulletproof reputation. Oil leak we couldn't duplicate on the ground. Make it    to a nursery (trees, not kids)

   Any engine can quit. Do everything you can    to avoid this (how obvious is that??) by following  the    manufacturer's instructions & using only best quality fluids.    IMHO

   

      On Feb 23, 2007, at 12:29 PM, John H Murphy wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		       --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John H Murphy"      <jhm9812(at)yahoo.com (jhm9812(at)yahoo.com)>

     



     Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common      or rare experience?

     



	


	


 

 I ost my 447 when a spark plug wire came off and I made a nonevent our of  gliding back to the field.

  

 George 

 Randolph

 Firestar driver from The Villages fl



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more 326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com" href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.  [quote][b]

_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

At 01:42 PM 2/23/07 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I want to know more about this:  

"June 25, 2001 Flight 144 - 3 minutes, 57:36 tt. Tried the aluminum foil 

and acrylic glue on the axles and it seemed to work"  


	


Scott,



The wheel bearings that came with my FireFly kit were very low grade 

bearings.  The bearing ID was much greater than the axle OD.  This let the 

wheels kind of flop around.  In an attempt to reduce this clearance I cut 

strips of aluminum foil and wrapped the axles at the bearing locations.  It 

helped but was not a good solution.  



I found some bearings at:



Wheel Bearing - Boca Bearing, RF1222-14PP, precision bearing with seals, 

$13.95 each, 1-800-332-3256, 7040 W. Palmetto Park Rd., Suite 2304, Boca 

Raton, FL 33433, bearing(at)gate.net, http://www.bocabearings.com 



I replaced the original bearing with those listed above and I have had no 

further problems.  These bearings have been in service since June 21, 2001 

and have about 500 flights on them.  The price listed above is the 2001 

price.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

It wasn't until this afternoon when I found an old picture of the Kasperwing that I remembered two more. The little Zenoah G-25 blew out the plug that replaced the compression release. I was on base leg at the time and the landing was uneventful. Screwed a spark plug into the hole and continued flying until dark.  

Second time I was coming back to Arlington from a short cross country to Island Crossing and the fuel valve vibrated shut. Pulled the starter once to no effect and set up a landing to a very muddy farm field. Darn near had a shoe sucked off by the muck, but managed to pull the plane to a packed mud access road. Found the problem and used the nylon tie I just happen to have with me to tie the valve open. Now you have to picture an airplane that has no floor but a nice supine harness for a seat. I couldn't sit down or the wheels would begin to sink in the muck. I stood up inside the frame, rammed the throttle to the stop and waddled a few steps until the Kwing seemed determined to roll and fell into the harness. Fortunately that big wing liked to fly slow and we got out of the field with no troubles. Added "tie the fuel valve open" to the preflight check list. 



Rick



On 2/23/07, GeoR38(at)aol.com (GeoR38(at)aol.com) <GeoR38(at)aol.com (GeoR38(at)aol.com)> wrote:[quote]       In a message dated 2/23/2007 5:02:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  kinnepix(at)earthlink.net (kinnepix(at)earthlink.net) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  At least    with certificated US made engines, it's a VERY rare occurrence . I've had two,    in 4800 hours -- a Continental     0-300 that was 40 years old, swallowed a valve. Apparently the LL    fuel can cause this. Got to an airport.    Second was a very low-time Lycoming 0-380 A1A, an engine with a    bulletproof reputation. Oil leak we couldn't duplicate on the ground. Make it    to a nursery (trees, not kids)

   Any engine can quit. Do everything you can    to avoid this (how obvious is that??) by following  the    manufacturer's instructions & using only best quality fluids.    IMHO

   

      On Feb 23, 2007, at 12:29 PM, John H Murphy wrote:



    	  Quote: 	
		       --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John H Murphy"      <jhm9812(at)yahoo.com (jhm9812(at)yahoo.com)>

     



     Who has had an engine out in flight? Is it common      or rare experience?

     



	


	


 

 I ost my 447 when a spark plug wire came off and I made a nonevent our of  gliding back to the field.

  

 George 

 Randolph

 Firestar driver from The Villages fl



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more 326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=  [quote][b]  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com 

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: Who has had an engine out in flight?

At 02:29 PM 2/23/2007, knowvne(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Non event provided your not down wind of your LZ 



It's 6:1 glide don't get ya real far in a head wind ...8-(


	


When you can land on a postage stamp you generally don't have to glide too far.



 	  Quote: 	
		     The only real thing ya got going for you is your Very Portable...


	


I dunno, there's something to be said for being able to cruise along 10' 

high and 20mph, knowing that you can land anywhere, anytime...



A bunch of the local GA and ultralight pilots in my area have now taken up 

PPG... in addition to, not instead of, their airplanes.



Still can't wait to fly my Kolb, though!  Spring's coming...



                                 -Dana

--

--

But, Officer, a broadsword is hardly a concealed weapon!

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