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Popped CB

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frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: Popped CB

I started my 912ULS for the first time.  Ran like a charm.  However, at

both starts the alt cb popped.  I used the Z16 diagram.  Obviously I

have "crossed wires" some place--any ideas?

Thanks

Frank McD

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: Popped CB

At 08:45 AM 3/12/2007 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I started my 912ULS for the first time.  Ran like a charm.  However, at

both starts the alt cb popped.  I used the Z16 diagram.  Obviously I

have "crossed wires" some place--any ideas?


	


    When did the breaker pop? As soon as you pushed the starter button?

    When you released the starter button? Do you have a diode across the

    coil of your starter contactor? Did you have the alternator

    turned ON while cranking or did you turn it on after the engine was

    running?



    Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------

        ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )

        ( what ever you do must be exercised   )

        ( EVERY day . . .                      )

        (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )

        ----------------------------------------

rdunhamtn(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: Popped CB

Frank,



I wired my SkyRanger/912UL via Z-16 also. It does the same thing. I just 

start the engine with the MASTER in the BAT position and then go to BAT/ALT 

after the engine is running, then turn on all loads. Shut-down is opposite 

sequence.*



Bob,



I didn't install a diode across the starter contactor coil but plan to.  

Will check next time I crank her up to see exactly when it happens and give 

you another data point.



Rodney in Tennessee



* I use the "5-M's" mnoemonic to remember shut-down sequence.

   ...Music - turn off all loads.

   ...Mags - check.

   ...Mixture - full lean (for the 912UL I just pull throttle to the idle 

stop).

   ...Mags - off.

   ...Master - off.



_________________________________________________________________

Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. 

Intro*Terms  

https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117

frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: Popped CB

Bob,

The CB popped when I released the starter contactor (switch with key).

Master was on BAT & ALT.  I tried starting with just BAT & it did not

pop.  It did not pop when I switched to Alt after starting with Bat

only.



I noticed this time I'm not getting a charge from Alt (verified master

switch on Alt) at 2400RPM.



I overlooked the diode on the starter contactor so, no, I do not have

one.  Maybe that's the problem???



Thanks

Frank



--

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Popped CB

At 11:20 AM 3/14/2007 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob,

The CB popped when I released the starter contactor (switch with key).

Master was on BAT & ALT.  I tried starting with just BAT & it did not

pop.  It did not pop when I switched to Alt after starting with Bat

only.



I noticed this time I'm not getting a charge from Alt (verified master

switch on Alt) at 2400RPM.


	


    Hmmm . . . this needs troubleshooting. Has it worked

    in the past?

 	  Quote: 	
		  I overlooked the diode on the starter contactor so, no, I do not have

one.  Maybe that's the problem???


	


   I'll bet on it. But in any case, starting with the alternator

   off is a reasonable procedure too. However, your starter

   switch will appreciate having the diode added.



    Bob . . .

frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: Popped CB

I'll add the diode.



Re the alternator not charging.  This is a new engine with first starts

so there's no history--hasn't worked from the beginning.

Frank



--

frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: Popped CB

Bob,

It looks (in the wiring diagram) like the starter contactor diode is

internal.  Do I need to purchase another contactor with the diode across

the coil or is there a way to add it externally?



Re the alternator not charging.  This is a new engine with first starts

so there's no history--hasn't worked from the beginning.  I've

re-checked the wiring and it seems to be connected properly but . . .

still not showing a charge.

Frank



--

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: Popped CB

At 10:33 PM 3/17/2007 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob,

It looks (in the wiring diagram) like the starter contactor diode is

internal.  Do I need to purchase another contactor with the diode across

the coil or is there a way to add it externally?


	


    The diode can be inside or outside . . . some of my drawings

    show it inside because the starter contactor I used to sell

    had it built in . . . but you can put one on the outside.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Re the alternator not charging.  This is a new engine with first starts

so there's no history--hasn't worked from the beginning.  I've

re-checked the wiring and it seems to be connected properly but . . .

still not showing a charge.


	


    How do you deduce whether or not it's charging? What

    kind of instrumentation do you have?



    Bob . . .

frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: Popped CB

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Bob,

It looks (in the wiring diagram) like the starter contactor diode is

internal.  Do I need to purchase another contactor with the diode

across
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  the coil or is there a way to add it externally?


	


    The diode can be inside or outside . . . some of my drawings

    show it inside because the starter contactor I used to sell

    had it built in . . . but you can put one on the outside.



Is it possible to put a diode on the outside of a three connector relay?

 	  Quote: 	
		  Re the alternator not charging.  This is a new engine with first starts

so there's no history--hasn't worked from the beginning.  I've

re-checked the wiring and it seems to be connected properly but . . .

still not showing a charge.


	


    How do you deduce whether or not it's charging? What

    kind of instrumentation do you have?



I'm using the Grand Rapids Tech EIS.  The window where "Voltage" is

displayed showed ~ 10.8 volts.  Rotax manual indicates a permanent

output of 13.5 v.  

Additionally, the Dynon EFIS would not come on with the Master, but it

did come on with the EBus switched on (with the master also on).  (When

testing during installation I noted previously the Dynon will come on

with the master if the battery is fully charged.  When battery is not

fully charged the Master does not bring it on line but the EBus will.)

    Frank

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: Popped CB

 	  Quote: 	
		  

     How do you deduce whether or not it's charging? What

     kind of instrumentation do you have?



I'm using the Grand Rapids Tech EIS.  The window where "Voltage" is

displayed showed ~ 10.8 volts.  Rotax manual indicates a permanent

output of 13.5 v.

Additionally, the Dynon EFIS would not come on with the Master, but it

did come on with the EBus switched on (with the master also on).  (When

testing during installation I noted previously the Dynon will come on

with the master if the battery is fully charged.  When battery is not

fully charged the Master does not bring it on line but the EBus will.)


	


   Okay, you need to put a voltmeter on the AC input wires to the

   regulator with the engine running (yellow) and see what voltage

   you get there at moderate RPMs (don't need to run up to full

   throttle . . . just see that here's a substantial voltage there

   - 20 volts or more).



   Do I presume correctly that you're wired per the latest verstion

   of Z-16?  Is the relay closing (hear it 'click') when you move

   the master switch to full up position? You can do this while the

   engine is not running so you can listen.



   If the regulator is still the same version I looked at some years

   ago, it depends on a GOOD ground between regulator case and

   your firewall ground bolt.



   Bob . . .

bob(at)bob-white.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:33 am Post subject: Popped CB

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:49:39 -0400

<frank.phyllis(at)mindspring.com> wrote:



<snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		   

     The diode can be inside or outside . . . some of my drawings

     show it inside because the starter contactor I used to sell

     had it built in . . . but you can put one on the outside.

 

 Is it possible to put a diode on the outside of a three connector relay?

 

 

<snip>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		       Frank

 


	


Hi Frank,



As best I can tell, this question wasn't addressed so I will take the

liberty of replying.



Yes.  One side of the coil is connected internally to the contact that

goes to the battery, and the other side of the coil is grounded by a

switch on the panel.  To put the diode across the coil, connect the

cathode to the battery contact and the anode on the coil terminal.

small sketch attached.



Bob W.



-- 

N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com

First Flight:  11/23/2006 7:50AM - 3.8 Hours Total Time

Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/

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frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: Popped CB

Thanks Bob

Do not archive



--

frank.phyllis(at)mindspri
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: Popped CB

 	  Quote: 	
		  

     How do you deduce whether or not it's charging? What

     kind of instrumentation do you have?



I'm using the Grand Rapids Tech EIS.  The window where "Voltage" is

displayed showed ~ 10.8 volts.  Rotax manual indicates a permanent

output of 13.5 v.

Additionally, the Dynon EFIS would not come on with the Master, but it

did come on with the EBus switched on (with the master also on).  (When

testing during installation I noted previously the Dynon will come on

with the master if the battery is fully charged.  When battery is not

fully charged the Master does not bring it on line but the EBus will.)


	


   Okay, you need to put a voltmeter on the AC input wires to the

   regulator with the engine running (yellow) and see what voltage

   you get there at moderate RPMs (don't need to run up to full

   throttle . . . just see that here's a substantial voltage there

   - 20 volts or more).



I was able to get 20 v at 2600 RPM



   Do I presume correctly that you're wired per the latest verstion

   of Z-16?  Is the relay closing (hear it 'click') when you move

   the master switch to full up position? You can do this while the

   engine is not running so you can listen.



I have Revision 11, May 05.  Yes, the battery relay closes (I can hear

it click and the EIS, radio, etc comes on).

   If the regulator is still the same version I looked at some years

   ago, it depends on a GOOD ground between regulator case and

   your firewall ground bolt.



Regulator is well grounded--bolted directly on firewall and check with

Ohm meter = 0.



   Frank

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