Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

User Fees

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> TeamGrumman-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: User Fees

Here is something I sent to AOPA.  Just in case it doesn't get printed, 

pass it along.  It's in response to a letter about User Fees.



Dear Chris Blythe, AOPA 5198042, Ascot, United Kingdom



Your defense of $9/gal gasoline when a barrel of oil costs less than it 

did 25 years ago and oil executives, who do little more than shuffle 

money around, are paid 10s of millions of dollars more in bonuses than 

any of their predecessors ever dreamed of, just amazes me.  Defending 

multiple aircraft ownership (seriously, 9 co-owners?) as cost-effective 

goes beyond anything I can comprehend.  Privately owned airfields, as 

in the U.K., mean that the owners of those airfields can decide to 

charge whatever â€˜feesâ€™ they deem necessary in order to pay this monthâ€™s 

mortgage. This only makes the owners, corporations, wealthy at the 

expense of excluding anything remotely resembling a middle-class.



 From your letter, it sounds like youâ€™ve grown accustomed to paying user 

fees, $9/gal for gas, and sharing your plane with 8 others.  Me thinks 

youâ€™ve been a British â€œsubjectâ€ a little too long.  Which reminds me of 

a quote, â€œall experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to 

suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by 

abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.â€



The point that you, Europe, and all those who support user fees, are 

missing, is that fees are only taxes the rich can afford.  The rich can 

afford to pay high fees for what they want because their taxes have 

been reduced to a very small fraction of their income.  For some 

reason, itâ€™s become more acceptable to pay fees than it is to pay 

taxes.  The attitude today has become, â€œIf itâ€™s a fee and the middle 

class or poor cannot afford it, â€œOh, well.â€



Iâ€™ll give you an example.  There was a time in the U.S., not that long 

ago, when our National Parks were open to everyone, free of charge.  If 

someone wanted to visit a National Park, all they had to do is get 

there.  Everyone could share the wonder.  Park Rangers and Park 

maintenance were paid for by our taxes.  But, politicians found they 

could win if they promised, â€œNo more taxes.â€  Now, there are fees.  The 

cost, the fees, puts visiting the Parks out of reach for an increasing 

larger percentage of the population.



In California, prior to Proposition 13 in 1978, we had a one of the 

best educational systems in the United States.  Inexpensive too; it 

cost $10 a year to go to a community college.  We had a modern, 

up-to-date infrastructure (road, bridges, waterways).  Housing was 

affordable. Californiaâ€™s budget never operated in the red.  A one 

percent property tax, adjusted for inflation, paid for most of it.  

Prop 13 froze property tax to the value of the house when it was 

purchased; no more corrections for inflation or property value 

increases.  Today, Californiaâ€™s education system ranks 49th out of 50.  

A year in a Community College has an enrollment fee ($480), a Health 

Fee, a Student Center Fee, an Identification Card fee, a parking fee, 

and a student body Identification fee.  Roads and other infrastructure 

are stuck in 80â€™s  And, guess what, today it costs a minimum of $50,000 

in fees just to break ground for a new house.  An average 3 bedroom 

2-bath house in 1978 was $70,000.  That same house costs over $400,000 

today.



Is that what you, and all of the supporters of â€˜User fees,â€™ really 

want?  Is not paying taxes more important than closing off all of our 

airports and making the cost of recreational flying unaffordable to all 

but the wealthy?  Who really wins when the government gets out of 

maintaining the most affordable, safest, self-supporting aviation 

system in the world?  Do you, or does anyone, really trust private 

corporations to NOT price gouge?  Privatizing the aviation system makes 

about as much sense as privatizing our highway system.  Oh, right, that 

could never happen.



The quote above was from Thomas Jefferson.  He wrote that in our 

Declaration of Independence.  He also wrote, â€œThat to secure these 

rights (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness), Governments are 

instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of 

the governed, â€” That whenever any Form of Government becomes 

destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to 

abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on 

such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them 

shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.â€



Gary L Vogt

Auburn, CA



________________________________________________________________________

from AOL at AOL.com.

=0

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

res02p3h(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: User Fees

Gary,



Awesome letter. Any chance you'll be forming a presidential  

exploratory committee?



Bruce Smith



On Apr 6, 2007, at 3:10 AM, teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Here is something I sent to AOPA.  Just in case it doesn't get  

 printed, pass it along.  It's in response to a letter about User Fees.



 Dear Chris Blythe, AOPA 5198042, Ascot, United Kingdom



 Your defense of $9/gal gasoline when a barrel of oil costs less  

 than it did 25 years ago and oil executives, who do little more  

 than shuffle money around, are paid 10s of millions of dollars more  

 in bonuses than any of their predecessors ever dreamed of, just  

 amazes me.  Defending multiple aircraft ownership (seriously, 9 co- 

 owners?) as cost-effective goes beyond anything I can comprehend.   

 Privately owned airfields, as in the U.K., mean that the owners of  

 those airfields can decide to charge whatever ‘fees’ they deem  

 necessary in order to pay this month’s mortgage. This only makes  

 the owners, corporations, wealthy at the expense of excluding  

 anything remotely resembling a middle-class.



 From your letter, it sounds like you’ve grown accustomed to paying  

 user fees, $9/gal for gas, and sharing your plane with 8 others.   

 Me thinks you’ve been a British “subject” a little too long.  Which  

 reminds me of a quote, “all experience hath shown that mankind are  

 more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right  

 themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”



 The point that you, Europe, and all those who support user fees,  

 are missing, is that fees are only taxes the rich can afford.  The  

 rich can afford to pay high fees for what they want because their  

 taxes have been reduced to a very small fraction of their income.   

 For some reason, it’s become more acceptable to pay fees than it is  

 to pay taxes.  The attitude today has become, “If it’s a fee and  

 the middle class or poor cannot afford it, “Oh, well.”



 I’ll give you an example.  There was a time in the U.S., not that  

 long ago, when our National Parks were open to everyone, free of  

 charge.  If someone wanted to visit a National Park, all they had  

 to do is get there.  Everyone could share the wonder.  Park Rangers  

 and Park maintenance were paid for by our taxes.  But, politicians  

 found they could win if they promised, “No more taxes.”  Now, there  

 are fees.  The cost, the fees, puts visiting the Parks out of reach  

 for an increasing larger percentage of the population.



 In California, prior to Proposition 13 in 1978, we had a one of the  

 best educational systems in the United States.  Inexpensive too; it  

 cost $10 a year to go to a community college.  We had a modern, up- 

 to-date infrastructure (road, bridges, waterways).  Housing was  

 affordable. California’s budget never operated in the red.  A one  

 percent property tax, adjusted for inflation, paid for most of it.   

 Prop 13 froze property tax to the value of the house when it was  

 purchased; no more corrections for inflation or property value  

 increases.  Today, California’s education system ranks 49th out of  

 50.  A year in a Community College has an enrollment fee ($480), a  

 Health Fee, a Student Center Fee, an Identification Card fee, a  

 parking fee, and a student body Identification fee.  Roads and  

 other infrastructure are stuck in 80’s  And, guess what, today it  

 costs a minimum of $50,000 in fees just to break ground for a new  

 house.  An average 3 bedroom 2-bath house in 1978 was $70,000.   

 That same house costs over $400,000 today.



 Is that what you, and all of the supporters of ‘User fees,’ really  

 want?  Is not paying taxes more important than closing off all of  

 our airports and making the cost of recreational flying  

 unaffordable to all but the wealthy?  Who really wins when the  

 government gets out of maintaining the most affordable, safest,  

 self-supporting aviation system in the world?  Do you, or does  

 anyone, really trust private corporations to NOT price gouge?   

 Privatizing the aviation system makes about as much sense as  

 privatizing our highway system.  Oh, right, that could never happen.



 The quote above was from Thomas Jefferson.  He wrote that in our  

 Declaration of Independence.  He also wrote, “That to secure these  

 rights (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness), Governments  

 are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the  

 consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government  

 becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to  

 alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its  

 foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such  

 form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and  

 Happiness.”



 Gary L Vogt

 Auburn, CA



 ______________________________________________________________________ 

 __

 from AOL at AOL.com.

 =0

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: User Fees

Maybe, if I had about 100 million dollars to spend



--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

smeyers1(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: User Fees

Actually, that wouldn't do it...



I saw on the news recently, where it's estimated that it will take more than 400 million to get elected president now.  That's about what Bush spent in 2004.



Stephen Meyers

Largo, FL

1969 AA1  N103RG



--

rdp123(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: User Fees

Gary for president?  Well that would make a very interesting world indeed. I

would love it and never stop smiling.  I don't think he would ever invade a

country unless it was named Hooters.  We would all parachute in from

Grummans with cocktails in our packs.



--

A1ynk(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: User Fees

I like your piece there Gary. You have my vote. Mind if I forward it to  someone?

 Bill Hatton the worthless helicopter mechanic



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

jhall2(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: User Fees

Gary,

Great letter!  Run for governor!

Jim Hall 

N9744U

i.r.m(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: User Fees

Have you seen this from Jan Brill an ex AYA Grumman  Tiger pilot, N18AP who is now the Editor of a German Pilots magazine. You have  been warned.

  

 http://flash.aopa.org/pilot_media_viewer/media/0704userfees/files/video1.html

  

 Ian M

  

  

 ---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: User Fees

Unfortuantely, this government "of the people" is becoming as Bush put 

it, "this would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship."



--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: User Fees

Please, forward it to as many people as you think would like to hear it.



--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

jamey

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: User Fees

Bill, knowing what little I do about  helicopters there can be no such thing as a "worthless helicopter  mechanic"

  

 Jamey

  

 [quote]   

   --

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> TeamGrumman-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum