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Stuck on Spraying

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dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

I thought I would throw this one out to those who have gone before...

  I am currently trying to do my first spraying of the the Poly Brush and it seems to be drying too quickly prior to hitting the elevator.  It is not going on wet enough to make the surface look wet (as the book says). 

  The factors:

    The ambient temp is about 75 degrees (I have an AC in my garage so I can controll it). It is a hot dry day outside.  
I built a spray booth that has air filtered in and out with a box fan pulling the air through.  
I am using a chepo spray gun (small) from Harbor Feight. I'm wondering if I need to go get a better gun. I have it wide open.  
I'm using a pressure setting of 20 lbs  
I started with the mix of 3 Poly Brush to 1 part Poly Fiber RR8500 reducer. A friend suggested I increase the reducer so I did to 3 to 2 parts reducer...helped a little...still not wet enough. I'm ending up with a  rough texture when it drys.  
My technique is to hold the sprayer about 5-6 inches away from the fabric as I make a pass. I have tried going slower...nada.  So I have exhausted my knowledge / guesses other than going out and buying a new spray gun. Anyone have any other thoughts?

  Dan Billingsley

  Mesa, AZ  / KF-IV, 912s

   

 [quote][b]

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

http://www.polyfiber.com/products/br8600blushretarder.htm

  

 Check the above site.  Poly Fiber once told me  to use 4 oz per qt.  Works well to prevent what you are talking  about.

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

Vic Baker

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Carson City, Nevada

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Dan,

 I used the Sharpe Finnex HVLP with success.   But I did have all kinds of trouble with it,  about 2/3 of the way through  the painting process I came real close to just buying the Binks - but - my  budget said no.  If you go with an upgrade to your gun,  talk to the  people your buying it from,  they will set you up with the proper tip  size.  I can tell you it takes some practice, and good lighting - you've  got to see the reflection of the lights as you go otherwise you can't see how  much is going on.  At one point my EAA tech fellow suggested I increase the  RR8500 ratio - mistake - the paint runs easily.  I finally ended up with  the BR8600 additive to slow drying - that works well.  But be careful - it  also tends to run.  Try to always shoot onto a horizontal  surface.

 Advise wise - got most of the good stuff from John  McBean - don't be afraid to call him.

 Vic

  

  

 Vic Baker

Carson City, Nv

K-7 912S Warp 80%

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck on Spraying

when you say small cheapo are you talking about the 10.00 touch up gun?? It so, they are really not intended for doing large areas.  With that said, do you have different tips.  You should also be able to turn the front adjuster ring to change the spray pattern.  Try bringing it in so it is a narrower pattern.  How much hose do you have, and is the air hot?  If you compressor is running all the time, the air can get very hot and that will screw you up too.  Alot of times, you can add more hose and it will cool down by the time it hits the gun.  Do you have the stop screw turned all the way out so you are getting maximum flow on the paint?  

As was mentioned, make sure you have the lights set up so you can look into the suface and see the glare as you are laying the paint down.  I used a dual head halogen work light so I could adjust it any way I needed to.



I normaly have my gun set up so I am covering about 16"-20" a second and using about a 45-50% overlap.  This has allways resulted in a very nice finish.



What model gun do you have?  It may help us to help you if we know for sure the equipment we are dealing with.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Thanks Leonard,

  Yes, I have the small touch-up gun (gravity feed) and that was my concern. I wasn't sure if it would be an issue, but apparently it is. I have been looking on line and educating myself a bit more and as you indicated, the tips will make a difference as well. I thank all the responses and I may try using the blush retarder if I still have trouble after getting the new gun. 

  Dan Billingsley

  Mesa, AZ

  KF-IV, 912s



akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 



when you say small cheapo are you talking about the 10.00 touch up gun?? It so, they are really not intended for doing large areas. With that said, do you have different tips. You should also be able to turn the front adjuster ring to change the spray  pattern. Try bringing it in so it is a narrower pattern. How much hose do you have, and is the air hot? If you compressor is running all the time, the air can get very hot and that will screw you up too. Alot of times, you can add more hose and it will cool down by the time it hits the gun. Do you have the stop screw turned all the way out so you are getting maximum flow on the paint? 

As was mentioned, make sure you have the lights set up so you can look into the suface and see the glare as you are laying the paint down. I used a dual head halogen work light so I could adjust it any way I needed to.



What model gun do you have? It may help us to help you if we know for sure the equipment we are dealing with.



--------

Leonard Perry

Soldotna AK

Avid "C" / Mk IV 

582 IVO IFA

Full Lotus 1260

95% complete





Read this topic online [quote][b]

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Dan,

  

 I see that everyone else is giving you good advice.  I  used the blush retarder and it helped tremendously to slow down the  drying.  You might also trying cooling it down in your paint booth.   If it is hot and dry, the paint will have a tendency to dry even before it hits  the surface.  I painted my plane in the winter time and spent a lot of time  and money heating my paint booth up to the recommended temperature.  One  day I did not have time to let it get to full temperature and the surface came  out looking better than when sprayed at a higher temp.

  

 Mike Logan



   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan  Billingsley

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:21 PM

To:  kitfox-list

Subject: Stuck on  Spraying

 

 I thought I would throw this one out to those who have gone before...

 I am currently trying to do my first spraying of the the Poly Brush and it  seems to be drying too quickly prior to hitting the elevator.  It is not  going on wet enough to make the surface look wet (as the book says). 

 The factors:

    The ambient temp is about 75 degrees (I have an AC in my garage so I can    controll it). It is a hot dry day outside.    
I built a spray booth that has air filtered in and out with a box fan    pulling the air through.    
I am using a chepo spray gun (small) from Harbor Feight. I'm wondering if    I need to go get a better gun. I have it wide open.    
I'm using a pressure setting of 20 lbs    
I started with the mix of 3 Poly Brush to 1 part Poly Fiber RR8500    reducer. A friend suggested I increase the reducer so I did to 3 to 2 parts    reducer...helped a little...still not wet enough. I'm ending up with a rough    texture when it drys.    
My technique is to hold the sprayer about 5-6 inches away from the fabric    as I make a pass. I have tried going slower...nada. So I have exhausted my knowledge / guesses other than going out and buying  a new spray gun. Anyone have any other thoughts?

 Dan Billingsley

 Mesa, AZ  / KF-IV, 912s

  

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Thanks Mike,

   Good thought on getting the temp down. Probably be best to paint in the early mornings and cool things down even more  that way. I have heard (for the paint) if it is refrigerated it helps alot with the finish as well.

  Dan



Michael Logan <michael.logan(at)cox.net> wrote:

  [quote]    Dan,

   

  I see that everyone else is giving you good advice.  I used the blush retarder and it helped tremendously to slow down the drying.   You might also trying cooling it down in your paint booth.  If it is hot and dry, the paint will have a tendency to dry even before it hits the surface.  I painted my plane in the winter time and spent a lot of time and money heating my paint booth up to the recommended temperature.  One day I did not have time to let it get to full temperature and the surface came out looking better than when sprayed at a higher temp.

   

  Mike Logan



      From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley

Sent: Sunday, June 03,  2007 3:21 PM

To: kitfox-list

Subject: Stuck on Spraying

  

  I thought I would throw this one out to those who have gone before...

  I am currently trying to do my first spraying of the the Poly Brush and it seems to be drying too quickly prior to hitting the elevator.  It is not going on wet enough to make the surface look wet (as the book says). 

  The factors:

  [list]  [*]The ambient temp is about 75 degrees (I have an AC in my garage so I can controll it). It is a hot dry day outside.   [*]I built a spray booth that has air filtered in and out with a box fan pulling the air through.   [*]I am using a chepo spray gun (small) from Harbor Feight. I'm wondering if I need to go get a better gun. I have it wide open.   [*]I'm using a pressure setting of 20 lbs   [*]I started with the mix of 3 Poly Brush to 1 part Poly Fiber RR8500 reducer. A friend suggested I increase [quote][b]

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

If you already have some areas that are feeling  rough due to the dry overspray you might try this after about 30 days of  paint curing.  Get some 2000 grit wet/dry sand paper (or finer if you can  find it). LIGHTLY wash the plane with warm soapy water and the fine grit  paper.  I said LIGHTLY.  Go even lighter than light over the solid  areas like rib caps.  This will put an outstanding smooth finish on the  paint job.  I'm speaking of Poly Tone paint.

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

Glenn Horne

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 96

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

The setting of 20 lbs is fine if you are using a  HVLP  gravity feed spray gun. If you are using

 a regular gun you need around  45 lbs at the gun.  If its going on dry add a little more material ( Poly  brush). 

 GLENN HORNE

Kitfox Model II

 [quote]   ---

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Or if it is going on dry you can add a longer hose from the blower to the gun.  In the case of the HVLP that I used a piece of garden hose worked.  This is what the HVLP manufacturer suggested to help cool off the air going to the gun.  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Horne

 Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:18 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Stuck on Spraying  

  

     

The setting of 20 lbs is fine if you are using a HVLP  gravity feed spray gun. If you are using  

    

a regular gun you need around 45 lbs at the gun. If its going on dry add a little more material ( Poly brush).   

    

GLENN HORNE

 Kitfox Model II  

  [quote]    

---

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Thanks Glenn, I started at 40 lbs and went down in pressure. I may try going up as I am using a conventional system (compressor). I do have a big enough tank so the air has enough time to cool along with 100' of hose so I think I'm ok there. I was able to find a Binks model 62 on E-Bay at a reasonable price so I will be able to try again in a few days. Thanks all for the tips and ideas!

  Dan Billingsley

  KF-IV, 912s

  Mesa, AZ



Glenn Horne <glennflys(at)verizon.net> wrote:

  [quote]        The setting of 20 lbs is fine if you are using a HVLP  gravity feed spray gun. If you are using

  a regular gun you need around 45 lbs at the gun. If its going on dry add a little  more material ( Poly brush). 

  GLENN HORNE

Kitfox Model II

  [quote]  ---

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Hi Guys,  

Have you guys seen the shutters available for the fox, both the radiator and the oil cooler, Lowell would not blow his own horn, I will.  

http://highwingllc.com/        

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley

 Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:43 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Stuck on Spraying  

  

     

Thanks Glenn, I started at 40 lbs and went down in pressure. I may try going up as I am using a conventional system (compressor). I do have a big enough tank so the air has enough time to cool along with 100' of hose so I think I'm ok there. I was able to find a Binks model 62 on E-Bay at a reasonable price so I will be able to try again in a few days. Thanks all for the tips and ideas!  

    

Dan Billingsley  

    

KF-IV, 912s  

    

Mesa,  AZ

 

 Glenn Horne <glennflys(at)verizon.net> wrote:  

  [quote]    

The setting of 20 lbs is fine if you are using a HVLP  gravity feed spray gun. If you are using  

    

a regular gun you need around 45 lbs at the gun. If its going on dry add a little more material ( Poly brush).   

    

GLENN HORNE

 Kitfox Model II  

  [quote]    

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

At 07:42 PM 6/3/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I was able to find a Binks model 62 on E-Bay at a reasonable price 

so I will be able to try again in a few days. Thanks all for the 

tips and ideas!


	


I can't over-emphasize the benefits of a good gun. For quality 

spraying I purchased a SATA Minijet 4 HVLP gun as an upgrade from a 

Home Depot Husky HVLP gun. It made an enormous difference, with much 

better atomization. I don't know why. I spent a few hours hanging out 

at the supply store where most of the local auto customizers buy 

their wares and they reiterated the necessity for starting with good equipment.



One more thing. With HVLP guns, make sure you have a regulator at the 

gun. Some come built in, but I added a small regulator to the SATA. I 

then run 90 psi in the hose and 20 - 25 at the gun. I also put a 

water separator and a HUGE desiccant dryer on my compressor. It might 

have been overkill, but I don't like variables.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Sounds like your main problem is your gun. It`s not putting out enough paint. You can`t do a $5000 paint job with a $20 gun. Your gun makes up about 70% of the quality of your paint job. The other 30% is knowing how to use it and how to reduce the paint your using. There are a lot of variables to producing a quality paint job. The head on the gun needs to be right for the type of paint your are using. There is a web site that rents DVD`s out for $9.95 a week on how to do things. They have a DVD on SPRAY PAINTING 101. You might want to rent that. Web site- www.smartflix.com.



Michael Logan <michael.logan(at)cox.net> wrote:  [quote]    Dan,

   

  I see that everyone else is giving you good advice.  I used the blush retarder and it helped tremendously to slow down the drying.  You might also trying cooling it down in your paint booth.  If it is hot and dry, the paint will have a tendency to dry even before it hits the surface.  I painted my plane in the winter time and spent a lot of time and money heating my paint booth up to the recommended temperature.  One day I did not have time to let it get to full temperature and the surface came out looking better than when sprayed at a higher temp.

   

  Mike Logan



      From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:21 PM

To: kitfox-list

Subject: Stuck on Spraying

  

  I thought I would throw this one out to those who have gone before...

  I am currently trying to do my first spraying of the the Poly Brush and it seems to be drying too quickly prior to hitting the elevator.  It is not going on wet enough to make the surface look wet (as the book says). 

  The factors:

    The ambient temp is about 75 degrees (I have an AC in my garage so I can controll it). It is a hot dry day outside.   
I built a spray booth that has air filtered  in and out with a box fan pulling the air through.   
I am using a chepo spray gun (small) from Harbor Feight. I'm wondering if I need to go get a better gun. I have it wide open.   
I'm using a pressure setting of 20 lbs   
I started with the mix of 3 Poly Brush to 1 part Poly Fiber RR8500 reducer. A friend suggested I increase the reducer so I did to 3 to 2 parts reducer...helped a little...still not wet enough. I'm ending up with a rough texture when it drys.   
My technique is to hold the sprayer about 5-6 inches away from the fabric as I make a pass. I have tried going slower...nada.  So I have exhausted my knowledge / guesses other than going out and buying a new spray gun. Anyone have any other thoughts?

  Dan Billingsley

  Mesa, AZ  / KF-IV, 912s

   

[quote][b]     TV dinner still cooling?

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49979/*http://tv.yahoo.com/]Check out "Tonight's Picks"[/url] on Yahoo! TV. [quote][b]

Glenn Horne

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 96

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Hot air is not you problem. I only use a 50 ft.  hose on my Binks.

 I'm painting a Grumman AAIA Yankee and the paint  went on nice. No sags no runs

  beautiful shine. My gun is a Binks gravity  feed,HVLP. Only use 18 lbs at the gun.

 Do you have a pressure gage at the gun? If not get  one. A Sharp gage is the best. That way you can set your pressure.

 GLENN HORNE

Kitfox Model II

 [quote]   ---

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Dan, I am using the 20oz gravity feed from Harbor Freight on the Hatz bi-plane I'm building and have been very pleased.  I have been painting at a lower ambiant temperature, <70f  with good results.  The suggestion for retarder is consistant with reports from years ago from this group.

  

 John Kerr

 Logan UT

 Classic IV, 912ul, 900 hrs+/-

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> 

 Thanks Leonard,

 Yes, I have the small touch-up gun (gravity feed) and that was my concern. I wasn't sure if it would be an issue, but apparently it is. I have been looking on line and educating myself a bit more and as you indicated, the tips will make a difference as well. I thank all the responses and I may try using the blush retarder if I still have trouble after getting the new gun. 

 Dan Billingsley

 Mesa, AZ

 KF-IV, 912s



akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 



when you say small cheapo are you talking about the 10.00 touch up gun?? It so, they are really not intended for doing large areas. With that said, do you have different tips. You should also be able to turn the front adjuster ring to change the spray pattern. Try bringing it in so it is a narrower pattern. How much hose do you have, and is the air hot? If you compressor is running all the time, the air can get very hot and that will screw you up too. Alot of times, you can add more hose and it will cool down by the time it hits the gun. Do you have the stop screw turned all the way out so you are getting maximum flow on the paint? 

As was mentioned, make sure you have the lights set up so you can look into the suface and see the glare as you are laying the paint down. I used a dual head halogen   work  light so I could adjust it any way I needed to.



What model gun do you have? It may help us to help you if we know for sure the equipment we are dealing with.



--------

Leonard Perry

Soldotna AK

Avid "C" / Mk IV 

582 IVO IFA

Full Lotus 1260

95% complete





Read this topic online  	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	
[b]

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: Stuck on Spraying

Ditto to Kirk’s advice.  And I used a CHEAP gun and HVLP system from Harbor Freight.  It was $80 or $90 including shipping.  I am real pleased with the result.  I did only paint early in the morning when it was cool.  

     

Randy Daughenbaugh,  N10NH  

Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore  

Home Strip, Grass   Room in Hangar for visitors  

Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip  

Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004  

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull

 Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:30 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Stuck on Spraying  

  

   

Or if it is going on dry you can add a longer hose from the blower to the gun.  In the case of the HVLP that I used a piece of garden hose worked.  This is what the HVLP manufacturer suggested to help cool off the air going to the gun.  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Horne

 Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:18 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Stuck on Spraying  

  

     

The setting of 20 lbs is fine if you are using a HVLP  gravity feed spray gun. If you are using  

    

a regular gun you need around 45 lbs at the gun. If its going on dry add a little more material ( Poly brush).   

    

GLENN HORNE

 Kitfox Model II  

  [quote]    

---

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

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