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l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: Flaperons

All:  I was just reading in the archives about the slits cut all the way around on the speedster flaperons.Some of you stated or you thought they were no longer recommended or required to be there.Has anyone got a good reference or have it in writing that this was done away with.Mine is a 94 model and it is still listed in the manual as a procedure to do on the speedster. Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-gone". No luck.---Leon Morris/Classic4 Spstr/94/50%/Flower Mound,TX

kitfox(at)ida.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: Flaperons

Set them in the sun and then start one end and pull it back over so you are 

pulling 180 deg. If it tears stop and get it to one piece again. It is not a 

quick and easy thing. Some chemicals will help it bond better. That is all I 

have on that.

Albert Smith

MudLake, Id.

5TD, NSI turbo, Cap

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Flaperons

In a message dated 6/30/2007 9:44:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  l.morris(at)tx.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the flaperons?    I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and  "goo-be-gone". 	


 

Leon,

  

 I just went thru this exercise a few months ago.  First you can try to  peel off the covering by pulling it off.  Keep the piece your pulling low  and try to keep an even speed while pulling.  After doing this 90% of the  covering will remain.  It's time to give up.  Go to WalMart or Loews  and buy about 2 quarts of paint stripper, loads of paper towels, plastic  putty knives, and latex gloves.  Liberally brush the stripper on  about a 4 foot long section of the flaperon.  Cover with paper towels, wait  about 15-20 minutes and it will begin to bubble the covering.  Pull of what  you can with the paper towels, then take the plastic tool and begin scraping the  covering off.  Hint: Keep the covering wet with the stripper, don't let it  dry or the covering will re-adhere.  Continue scrapping and removing until  the section is clean.  Then move on.  The stripper will burn you, be  sure to use the gloves.  You can wipe off the residual stripper with  watered down paper towels.  I kept the strpper away from the hinges to be  sure none got inside the flaperon.  It's a dirty nasty job, with no real  short cuts, but it does work.  Like you, I tried everything else.  I'm  glad it's over!

  

 Rick

Series V Speedster - N39RW



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: Flaperons

At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the 

flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-gone".


	


Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.

Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: Flaperons

I did check the archives,thought I mentioned that.Was just looking for a quick and easy was to do it. Don't have a 11 year old daughter with a hairdryer. Thanks to all who imputed. Leon Morris/classic 4 (94)/50%/ Flower Mound,TX    Do not archive 

---- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	

 At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:

 >Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the 

 >flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-gone".

 Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.

 Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Flaperons

Regular paint thinner (mineral spirits) soaked into paper towels laid  

on the flaperons for a few hours is a pretty "fume-free" way to  

soften the film. It will then pull off fairly easily. It's a time- 

consuming job, so find something else to do while they soak...but  

keep the towels wet. When I did mine after being covered for over 12  

years, I did about a 4-foot section at a time.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/350+ hrs

On Jun 30, 2007, at 11:36 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:

> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the  

> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be- 

> gone".

 Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.

 Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: Flaperons

Even if you did, the hairdryer is probably not a good idea, due to  

the internal structure of the flaperon having some foam inside. I  

don't know how much temperature this foam will stand, or the adhesive  

that secures it all.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/350+ hrs

On Jul 1, 2007, at 11:18 AM, <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I did check the archives,thought I mentioned that.Was just looking  

 for a quick and easy was to do it. Don't have a 11 year old  

 daughter with a hairdryer. Thanks to all who imputed. Leon Morris/ 

 classic 4 (94)/50%/ Flower Mound,TX    Do not archive

 ---- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:

> 

>

> At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:

>> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the

>> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be- 

>> gone".

>

> Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.

> Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

> San Diego, CA

> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: Flaperons

Leon,

My fox is a 92 vintage finished up in 98. 912ul with 800 hours on it now,

the short wing (I run both) does not have the slits in the flaperons. I

could not figure how to so this and make it look good. I have never had any

binding or other problems with it this way and would not cut them if I was

building now.

John Oakley



--

clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Flaperons

It would be interesting to figure out what causes the film to stick to

the flaperons, so maybe we could minimize the problem in the future.

Could it be storage conditions, humidity, temperature, or is it the

material used? 

My flaperons were stored hanging on the wall in my garage in Oklahoma

from 1991 until this winter (2007). 16 years of storage and I peeled the

covering right off in one pull. Each side of the flaperon covering came

off in a big sheet with no tendency to stick or tear. Our humidity

averages about 50% in the garage and the temps in the garage run from

about 90 in the summer to 45 in the winter. 

It might be interesting to hear about the storage conditions from some

who have had a lot of problems removing the covering.

Clem

KFIV,912, #1461

Lawton, OK

On Jun 30, 2007, at 11:36 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:

> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the

> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be- 

> gone".

 Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.

 Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Flaperons

Lynn:



I like your idea of using the paper  towels and mineral spirits but I don't think the heat developed by a hair dryer  would delaminate the flaperons....  I can't remember the temperature we  used to do bonding at.  Technical school is a few years away now but I  think it was 200F or higher.  (Too lazy today to look it up) As a rule of  thumb I'd say if it is too hot to hold with your bare hand... It's too  hot.



 

[img]cid:438403317(at)02072007-0B0A[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 Do not archive

 

 

 



[quote] --

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: Flaperons

--- clemwehner <clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   It would be interesting to figure out what causes

 the film to stick to the flaperons......

----------------------------------------------------
	


I checked mine a few years after buying my kit and the

film was still easily removed.  Later I stored them

horizontally in the attic of my garage and the film

seemed to bake on.



I think if you store them on edge for circulation and

in cooler places, the film will not be so hard to

remove.



Just one guess,



Kurt Schrader

S-5/NSI turbo

Florida and Panama

       

http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Flaperons

 	  Quote: 	
		  It would be interesting to figure out what causes the film to stick to 

the flaperons, so maybe we could minimize the problem in the future. 	




I stored my flaperons for six years horizontaly up in the rafters of my shop where the temperature was often over 100 F in the summer and sometimes minus 20 to minus 30 in the winter.  It was a dry climate in the high desert of central oregon.  The plastic film was hard and dry and baked on and came off in 1/4 inch pieces.  It took several days of painstaking work to get it off.



If I had a set or even one flaperon with that dreaded plastic film on them I would go out right now and see if it would peel off.  If it would I would take it off right now.  No doubt about it.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Flaperons

My flaperons were stored under the very same conditions,vertical in the garage,north Texas fairly low humidity,90-100 summer (door open) and 40's in the winter for 13 years and film is hard ,bake on and will only come off in 1/4" pieces. Leon Morris/Classic4/94/50%/Flower Mound,TX

'

---- clemwehner <clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	

 It would be interesting to figure out what causes the film to stick to

 the flaperons, so maybe we could minimize the problem in the future.

 Could it be storage conditions, humidity, temperature, or is it the

 material used? 

 My flaperons were stored hanging on the wall in my garage in Oklahoma

 from 1991 until this winter (2007). 16 years of storage and I peeled the

 covering right off in one pull. Each side of the flaperon covering came

 off in a big sheet with no tendency to stick or tear. Our humidity

 averages about 50% in the garage and the temps in the garage run from

 about 90 in the summer to 45 in the winter. 

 It might be interesting to hear about the storage conditions from some

 who have had a lot of problems removing the covering.

 Clem

 KFIV,912, #1461

 Lawton, OK

 On Jun 30, 2007, at 11:36 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 > 

 >

 > At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:

 >> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the

 >> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be- 

 >> gone".

 >

 > Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.

 >

 >

 > Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: Flaperons

Noel-



It seems like I tried the hair dryer method, and what stopped me was  

the "oil canning" or momentary distortion that resulted, so I quit  

using it.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/350+ hrs

On Jul 2, 2007, at 1:33 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn:



 I like your idea of using the paper towels and mineral spirits but  

 I don't think the heat developed by a hair dryer would delaminate  

 the flaperons....  I can't remember the temperature we used to do  

 bonding at.  Technical school is a few years away now but I think  

 it was 200F or higher.  (Too lazy today to look it up) As a rule of  

 thumb I'd say if it is too hot to hold with your bare hand... It's  

 too hot.

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

davestapa

Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Woodstock, GA

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: Flaperons

I stored my flaperons by hanging them on a wall in my shop for about 7-8

years. The side against the wall came off easily. The side exposed to the

room and natural light and artificial light (florescent) was very

difficult to remove. So UV plays a role.



C. David Estapa

Woodstock, Georgia

N97DE  S5TD 912ULS Warp Drive

Phase 1 Testing



 	  Quote: 	
		   > It would be interesting to figure out what causes the film to 

 stick to 

 > the flaperons, so maybe we could minimize the problem in the 

 future.

_________________
C. David Estapa
Woodstock, GA
S5TD N97DE

clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: Flaperons

This may be the clue we've been looking for.  My flaperons were stored

for 16 years in my garage and the film came off perfectly on both sides.

BUT, mine we're hung on a wall on the dark side of the garage, where

very little light ever hit them.  Given David's experience described in

his previous posting, it could very well be that UV light makes the film

brittle, as it does many plastics.  The film is very thin and may

deteriorate quickly. Perhaps the answer for long term storage is to wrap

the flaperons with something, or keep them covered so light can't get to

them. 



Clem

KF IV, 912

Lawton, OK




I stored my flaperons by hanging them on a wall in my shop for about 7-8

years. The side against the wall came off easily. The side exposed to

the room and natural light and artificial light (florescent) was very

difficult to remove. So UV plays a role.



C. David Estapa

Woodstock, Georgia

N97DE  S5TD 912ULS Warp Drive

Phase 1 Testing



 	  Quote: 	
		   > It would be interesting to figure out what causes the film to

 stick to

 > the flaperons, so maybe we could minimize the problem in the

 future.

 

 Clem

 KFIV,912

 Lawton, OK

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Flaperons

This is an old topic that rears up every so often and you're correct, it's

the UV that is causing the plastic to get brittle.  Your recommendation is a

good one Clem; however to ensure that there are no problems down the road

it's probably best to remove the covering as soon as you get them, then hang

them up somewhere safe.  That covering is only on there to protect the

aluminum during shipping.

Deke Morisse

N148DM

S5/Soob/CAP

NE Michigan

"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of

immortality."

-- John Quincy Adams



Subject: RE: Re: Flaperons

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 This may be the clue we've been looking for.  My flaperons were stored

 for 16 years in my garage and the film came off perfectly on both sides.

 BUT, mine we're hung on a wall on the dark side of the garage, where

 very little light ever hit them.  Given David's experience described in

 his previous posting, it could very well be that UV light makes the film

 brittle, as it does many plastics.  The film is very thin and may

 deteriorate quickly. Perhaps the answer for long term storage is to wrap

 the flaperons with something, or keep them covered so light can't get to

 them.



 Clem

 KF IV, 912

 Lawton, OK

Mdkitfox(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: Flaperons

I tried a hairdryer to.  It didn't take much heat to get the  distortion and popping and the covering didn't come off that easily  anyway.  My flaperons were stored in an air conditioned basement from 92  until 200



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: Flaperons

I tried a hairdryer to.  It  didn't take much heat to get the distortion and popping and the covering didn't  come off that easily anyway. The chemicals proved to be the best and  quickest way.  My flaperons were stored in an air conditioned basement from  92 until 2005.  From there they felt the hot and cold of DC for 1year  and the Florida heat and humidity for another year.  Go figure.  I  hope the epoxy I used sticks as good as the film did!

  

 Rick Weiss, Series V, 912S,  N39RW

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

 PS Sorry for the earlier  partial message, but there must be some queertrons running around loose in  this computer.



  



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: Flaperons

In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:06:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  This is an    old topic that rears up every so often and you're correct, it's

the UV that    is causing the plastic to get brittle. 	


 

 Deke,

  

 I want to agree, but my flaperons were kept on a shelf in our basement for  12 years before I removed the covering.  They never saw sunlight and I  still had the problem.  However there was a period of a few days, when  they may have been exposed to UV.  Are we to conclude the brittleness  occurs very quickly with sunlight contact.  If so the recommendation should  be to remove the covering immediately when the flaperons are received.

  

 Just my 2 cents.

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Rick Weiss, Series V, 912S

  

  



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

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