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John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006 Posts: 273 Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Hello all,
Somewhere recently I managed to misplace my kneeboard-sized laminated normal & emergency procedures checklists for my 500-B. Rather than start over from scratch, I'm wondering if anyone has 500-B checklist documents in MS Word or similar format that they could share?
Thanks in advance,
/John
N353CC
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steve2(at)sover.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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John,
I made this up several years ago now.....
Please carefully go through this to see that it meets your needs before
using......
If nothing else, it might save you some time typing if you make your own.
Steve
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steve2(at)sover.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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P.S.
Check out each of the pages (sheets). Lots of goodies.....
Steve
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CloudCraft(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:27 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory writes them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine start.
Quote: | You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
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Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very important.
Quote: | It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear selector is in the full down detent.
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I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want to make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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steve2(at)sover.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
[quote] ---
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tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.n Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an external down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock pin in and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached.
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that we need to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around, but I never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to fit each aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
[quote] Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
[quote] ---
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CloudCraft(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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In a message dated 06-Aug-07 07:18:06 Pacific Daylight Time, steve2(at)sover.net writes:
Quote: | I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything. |
Yo ho! You are so right, Steve!
Checklists are always a work in progress. And, you can produce what you think is the perfect checklist after a lifetime of edits and tweaking and the first person you show it to will look at it and say it's worthless.
Then there's the problem of your checklist being found at the bottom of a crater with a wrecked airplane on top of it ... You'll probably hear from the bereaved widow's attorney.
As to the safety latch on the landing gear: your comment is always everyone's first reaction to the idea of safetying the gear upon extension.
It is my belief that it's a simple thing to flick out of the way on a go-around or missed approach. But then again, I used to play flamenco guitar and can use my right hand pinkie and ring finger to move the latch while holding the gear handle with my thumb, index and middle finger. Ole!
If the 3/4 of a second it takes to unsafety the gear is the difference between a successful go-around, are you really in position to make a go-around?
There are two distinct camps on this issue and now you know where my tent is pitched. I rather flick (or fumble with) the gear safety, then to have a nose wheel fold back on landing.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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moe(at)rosspistons.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Tylor,
Please explain about the external down lock gear lock pins on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start. I don’t think that my 680F(p) has such a device.
Thanx!
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:51 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an external down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock pin in and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached.
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that we need to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around, but I never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to fit each aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
[quote]
---
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n55bz(at)cox.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Steve,
You start the No.2 engine first and check the No.2 hydraulic pump, on shut down shouldn’t you shut down the No. 2 first to check the No.1 hyd pump?
Very well thought out check list and one of the best I have seen.
Kindest regards,
Bill
--
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brcamp(at)windows.microso Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Not an urban legend, but the accident occurred at sac exec. It was a (lawyer owned) Baron 58, which flipped on take off, killing the sole occupant. NTSB found the control lock still in place. The design of the Baron (and Bonanza) dual yoke makes it hard to see from the operating position, but if the gentleman had checked for clear controls before trusting in them he would be alive today.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:27 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory writes them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine start.
Quote: |
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
|
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very important.
Quote: |
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear selector is in the full down detent.
|
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want to make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List | 01234
[quote][b]
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tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.n Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Moe,This pin is on the older 680, with the bath tub. The landing gear does not rotate when it retracts. The owner explained that if the hydraulic pressure bleeds off, the budge cord may not keep the gear down when the aircraft is towed. The older style does not have the nitrogen cylinder on the gear.
He had two pins with flags on them for the gear.
On the older 680, you would need to add, pump the hydraulic up to 1000 psi prior to start. Originally the 560 and 680 only had one engine with Hydraulic pump. You could start up and not have breaks. The 680 I am looking at, has the dual hydraulic pumps.
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
[quote]
Tylor,
Please explain about the external down lock gear lock pins on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start. I don’t think that my 680F(p) has such a device.
Thanx!
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tylor HallSent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:51 AMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an external down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock pin in and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached.
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that we need to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around, but I never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to fit each aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
[quote]
---
| - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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moe(at)rosspistons.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Tylor,
Thanks for clarifying that this feature is on the older 680 models….there for a minute I thought that I had completely lost it.
Regards,
Moe
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:12 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Moe,
This pin is on the older 680, with the bath tub. The landing gear does not rotate when it retracts. The owner explained that if the hydraulic pressure bleeds off, the budge cord may not keep the gear down when the aircraft is towed. The older style does not have the nitrogen cylinder on the gear.
He had two pins with flags on them for the gear.
On the older 680, you would need to add, pump the hydraulic up to 1000 psi prior to start. Originally the 560 and 680 only had one engine with Hydraulic pump. You could start up and not have breaks. The 680 I am looking at, has the dual hydraulic pumps.
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
Tylor,
Please explain about the external down lock gear lock pins on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start. I don’t think that my 680F(p) has such a device.
Thanx!
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:51 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an external down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock pin in and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached.
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that we need to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around, but I never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to fit each aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com (CloudCraft(at)aol.com)
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory writes them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine start.
Quote: |
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
|
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very important.
Quote: |
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear selector is in the full down detent.
|
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want to make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
Quote: | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
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<Commander Version 2.1.xls>
Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 0 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 1 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 2 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 3 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 4 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 5 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 6 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 7 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 8 Quote: | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com | 901234
[quote][b]
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steve2(at)sover.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Flamenco guitar, eh? I'd love to hear some of that. I used to have an old cassette tape of Segovia some years back. It sounded like 3 or 4 instruments at once. I'm about a year into trying to play Viola, in between finishing our house, building a small bakery for my wife, pulling stumps and grading the land in back yard, and trying to rebuild an old MG.......... And I still want to build a biplane. You know, in my spare time.
I changed the sheet to reflect operating the pin when selecting gear down.
Also incorporated the previous very good observation to alternate shutdown to be opposite startup to detect problems with hydraulic and vacuum pumps. Something I DO, but didn't have on the sheet right.
The sheets print out better, but not the way I designed it to be, on small index cards. I'lll work on that.
Steve
[quote] ---
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John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006 Posts: 273 Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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Steve,
Thanks for your checklist documents! They look great, and I really
appreciate the input. I'll make sure to put PROPERTY OF STEVE (at) COL-EAST
at the top of each page, so if something were to go awry, my wife will
know whom my attorney should call. (Just kiddin')
I was trained from day 1 to engage the pin latch after putting the gear
down, and I do it automatically now, without thinking, as pretty much a
single motion....lever-down-latch. In the couple of instances when the
students have backed up the pattern at my local airport (ever notice how
much faster a Commander is in the pattern than a Cessna 150, even when
flying slow?), the go-around was a non event. I also, for the neighbors'
sake, tend to keep my props ~2,200RPM in the pattern. It's amazing, even
heavy, how little power it takes to arrest the descent. If the pattern
is empty, I can put the power at 14" and 2,200RPM as I enter downwind,
and then add flaps as needed & never touch the power levers until I can
them over the threshold. During the go-around, flaps up & nudging the
throttles to 17 or 18" is sufficient to regain level flight. 25" is the
most I use for climbout to re-enter the pattern, and I'll usually move
the props up to 2,400RPM before that final throttle adjustment.
There is a very timely article on AvWeb by John Deakin about go-arounds
here:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/pelicans_perch_87_killer_go-arounds_195755-1.html
I'm surprised that he gets so much heat from other pilots about his
philosophy, as I've evidently been trained to do them in the manner he
prefers. Of course, in a Commander, you can dump all the power you have
into a go-around, and that wing & tail are SO big that you won't have
any control issues...
Thanks again,
/John
Steve at Col-East wrote:
[quote] Flamenco guitar, eh? I'd love to hear some of that. I used to have an
old cassette tape of Segovia some years back. It sounded like 3 or 4
instruments at once. I'm about a year into trying to play Viola, in
between finishing our house, building a small bakery for my wife,
pulling stumps and grading the land in back yard, and trying to
rebuild an old MG.......... And I still want to build a biplane. You
know, in my spare time.
I changed the sheet to reflect operating the pin when selecting gear down.
Also incorporated the previous very good observation to alternate
shutdown to be opposite startup to detect problems with hydraulic and
vacuum pumps. Something I DO, but didn't have on the sheet right.
The sheets print out better, but not the way I designed it to be, on
small index cards. I'lll work on that.
Steve
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steve2(at)sover.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
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John,
Gotta love Deakin. Good piece.
I'm very glad to read your previous message, and Deakin's column.
I had been nudging the RPM up on short final when I first started flying our
Commander. For a while now, I had been leaving props at cruise through
rollout, thinking I had plenty of power available if I needed to initiate a
go-around, and why make all that racket? I didn't figure anything would
happen so quick, I couldn't slowly shove everything forward if need be. The
only exception was if we had one of those swell days we get at the home
drome with the wind ripping over the hills. Then I would advance RPM on
final.
Steve
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