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Corvair engines

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gregnk8(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: Corvair engines

I'm new to this list so sorry if not up to date on everything.  am trying to decide on an engine and have done some research that might be useful to others. Done a lot of browsing and have some dumb questions



According to my research, Chevy was  nitriding its cranks way back in the 60's.  A friend tells me that all aircraft engines have nitrided cranks.  If wynne is an engineer why did it take so long and so many broken cranks for him to recommend nitriding?  am I missing something here?



I found another company called venturay that seems to be into Corvairs.  seems to be a lot of bad blood on this list.  Funny it says that wynne's lawyer told them its a trademark. Someone told me that wynne is an engineer but the only engineer I can find in florida with that name is william wynne grubbs so is that his real name and then william wynne is his company name?



venturay does not have any person's names so it's hard to find  anything other than it's corporation. venturay has what appears they say is a real address that matches it"s incorporation but its probably the adddress of its registered agents.  Yeeeah, Delaware is real big on those I hear.



Has anyone ever been to the address in Orange Park from wynns website. is it really just a mailbox? Before I fork over thousands of dollars, I want to know I'm dealing with more than a mailbox. Really hard getting a response from him. before I spend mrore time chasing him i'd like to know.



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gscampoli(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: Corvair engines

Greg,



I think that you will find that WW is not an engineer, but is an A&P with 

DEEP roots in the homebuilding movement and a genuine caring for his 

customers.  He does the best job for every one of his customers that he 

possibly can, but for some that doesn't seem to be enough.   His business is 

not very big and has few employees; every one of his customers believes that 

the order he just placed should be the most important thing on William's 

to-do list.



A lot of the Corvair engine people are 'rolling their own' with most, if not 

all of WW's conversion parts.  I would suggest that you purchase the 

conversion manual and read his thoughts on risk management and safety.  The 

manual is much more than a 'tab A into slot B' instruction book, it may even 

change the way you think on a lot of aviation subjects.



To the best of my knowledge, Chevy did not nitride ALL Corvair  cranks, only 

the turbo engines were done.



Venturay is a 'johnny-come-lately' in the Corvair movement, that's not a bad 

thing, but many of us have a deep respect for the pioneering work and 

research that William Wynne has done and hate to see him deprived of the 

rightful fruits of his labors by someone who didn't bother to do the 

research and development work.



I have been to a Corvair College at WW's hangar and I can testify that what 

he's doing for homebuilders is indeed the 'real deal.'  Take a look at his 

website and visit the various areas that show the Corvair Colleges and the 

extent of his research.  You will find that unlike most in the business, 

William does not sell anything that he has not flight tested for many, many 

hours.



Welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of homebuilding!



Gerry Scampoli

Hingham, MA

601XL - Corvair



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Greg Kendall <gregnk8(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Corvair engines

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT)



I'm new to this list so sorry if not up to date on everything.  am trying 

to decide on an engine and have done some research that might be useful to 

others. Done a lot of browsing and have some dumb questions



According to my research, Chevy was  nitriding its cranks way back in the 

60's.  A friend tells me that all aircraft engines have nitrided cranks.  

If wynne is an engineer why did it take so long and so many broken cranks 

for him to recommend nitriding?  am I missing something here?



I found another company called venturay that seems to be into Corvairs.  

seems to be a lot of bad blood on this list.  Funny it says that wynne's 

lawyer told them its a trademark. Someone told me that wynne is an engineer 

but the only engineer I can find in florida with that name is william wynne 

grubbs so is that his real name and then william wynne is his company name?



venturay does not have any person's names so it's hard to find anything 

other than it's corporation. venturay has what appears they say is a real 

address that matches it"s incorporation but its probably the adddress of 

its registered agents.  Yeeeah, Delaware is real big on those I hear.



Has anyone ever been to the address in Orange Park from wynns website. is 

it really just a mailbox? Before I fork over thousands of dollars, I want 

to know I'm dealing with more than a mailbox. Really hard getting a 

response from him. before I spend mrore time chasing him i'd like to know.





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601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: Corvair engines

Greg, you have definitely received some wrong  information and need to visit the CorvAircraft list. 

  

     Search the CorvAircraft archives at 

 http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp

     Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html

  

 Do not archive.

 [quote]   ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Corvair engines

Other than what has already been written all I can add is this.



How many aircraft are flying with Corvair engines that WW had something to do with and how many are flying that venturay had something to do with?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Corvair engines

Hi Greg,

The WW Corvair has powered a lot of aircraft with great reliability.  

Car/Airplane performance needs are different, so nitriding is an option 

arrived at by engineers and historical performance data. There's no 

disagreement on the Corvair.  Most WW engines have satisfied owners and 

I believe WW is still one of the good guys.  Frustration is, his success 

has extended the delivery times. It's on you to think far enough ahead 

enough to keep that engine from holding up your project.  You may not 

find WW on the Graduate Engineers list, but what he's done makes WW the 

only responsible Engineer for his product.  Aircraft builders don't 

think in formal terms, but support each other and work together without 

looking for the "hand holding" done by more expensive Engine Mfrs.



It probably is just a mail box with  no assets, so consider your ability 

to pre-program or absorb the timing of his delivery before you write the 

check and then don't complain about it.



I'm very optimistic you'd find WW's engine very satisfactory and it 

would undoubtedly save you a lot of money.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive

 



Greg Kendall wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm new to this list so sorry if not up to date on everything.  am 

 trying to decide on an engine and have done some research that might 

 be useful to others. Done a lot of browsing and have some dumb questions



 According to my research, Chevy was nitriding its cranks way back in 

 the 60's.  A friend tells me that all aircraft engines have nitrided 

 cranks.  If wynne is an engineer why did it take so long and so many 

 broken cranks for him to recommend nitriding?  am I missing something 

 here?



 I found another company called venturay that seems to be into 

 Corvairs.  seems to be a lot of bad blood on this list.  Funny it says 

 that wynne's lawyer told them its a trademark. Someone told me that 

 wynne is an engineer but the only engineer I can find in florida with 

 that name is william wynne grubbs so is that his real name and then 

 william wynne is his company name?



 venturay does not have any person's names so it's hard to find 

 anything other than it's corporation. venturay has what appears they 

 say is a real address that matches it"s incorporation but its probably 

 the adddress of its registered agents.  Yeeeah, Delaware is real big 

 on those I hear.



 Has anyone ever been to the address in Orange Park from wynns website. 

 is it really just a mailbox? Before I fork over thousands of dollars, 

 I want to know I'm dealing with more than a mailbox. Really hard 

 getting a response from him. before I spend mrore time chasing him i'd 

 like to know.

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paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: Corvair engines

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Just my opinion, but as one of the many Corvairers. Corvairees,  Corvairists, or whatever, on this list, I would suggest that before you go much  further, go look up www.flycorvair, and maybe peruse WW's  manual. He is not an engineer, but he is an A&P with a lot of experience in  Corvairs. Practical knowledge outranks theoretical any day.  Thus, he  knows what does and doesn't work. Having never heard of venturay I can’t  comment, but I do know WW is straight arrow. I don't say that lightly. If you  make it to either Oshkosh or ZAC's open house, or make the pilgrimage to his  hangar, (how bad could a trip to Central Florida be?) you can usually see,  touch, smell, taste and ask all the questions you want about, WW's 601XL, and  decide for yourself if you'd feel OK behind one. So far, a bunch of us do, in  more than one airframe.

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 601XL/Corvair

 [quote]   ---

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: Corvair engines

100 to 1 ?



Do not archive.



---

quikdraw(at)mtco.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm new to this list so sorry if not up to date on everything.  am trying

 to decide on an engine and have done some research that might be useful to

 others. Done a lot of browsing and have some dumb questions



 According to my research, Chevy was  nitriding its cranks way back in the

 60's.  A friend tells me that all aircraft engines have nitrided cranks.

 If wynne is an engineer why did it take so long and so many broken cranks

 for him to recommend nitriding?  am I missing something here?



 I found another company called venturay that seems to be into Corvairs.

 seems to be a lot of bad blood on this list.  Funny it says that wynne's

 lawyer told them its a trademark. Someone told me that wynne is an

 engineer but the only engineer I can find in florida with that name is

 william wynne grubbs so is that his real name and then william wynne is

 his company name?



 venturay does not have any person's names so it's hard to find anything

 other than it's corporation. venturay has what appears they say is a real

 address that matches it"s incorporation but its probably the adddress of

 its registered agents.  Yeeeah, Delaware is real big on those I hear.



 Has anyone ever been to the address in Orange Park from wynns website. is

 it really just a mailbox? Before I fork over thousands of dollars, I want

 to know I'm dealing with more than a mailbox. Really hard getting a

 response from him. before I spend mrore time chasing him i'd like to know.

 Greg - Go to www.flycorvair.com to learn all about William or to

www.zenithair.com, look at new completions of 601 kits and you will find
	


out all about William's Corvair engines in Zenith aircraft.



Jim Hinrichsen

601 HDS, Corvair

 	  Quote: 	
		  

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

> If you make it to  either Oshkosh or ZAC's open house, or make the pilgrimage to his hangar, (how  bad could a trip to Central Florida be?) you can usually see, touch, smell,  taste and ask all the questions you want about, WW's 601XL, and decide for  yourself if you'd feel OK behind one.

  

 Also there is a Corvair engine seminar planned with  William and Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale, CA sometime later this  year.

  

 www.qualitysportplanes.com

  

 You can see pictures of the first one  here:

  

 www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_051.htm

  

 -- Craig

   [quote][b]

jonaburns

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 32

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Corvair engines

I too am scarred to death to send thousands of dollars to a small business for an unspecified number of months.  I know someone, who is also on this list, who has waited many more months than I could stand for a complete engine from WW.  



As others have said, he has quite a few people wanting him to create something for them.  He seems to treat everyone as his best friend, and often goes out of his way to help... which adds to delays.  He does a lot of his own work, and is probably not as hard on his suppliers as he could be. 



I can say that I do not know of anyone who has actually lost their money with WW, nor can I say that I know of anyone that has actually done business with Venturay.  Not out of respect for WW, but just a comment.  I have even sent inquiries to them about their products, but did not complete a transaction. 



I do not believe I owe WW anything for "Blazing the way."  I believe intellectual property is to be protected, but as new players enter the field, remember that WW was one of these at one time.  He did not invent the Corvair, using it in aviation, or the prop hub.  He did create his unique nosebowl, among other things, and that is his to protect.  I do not believe in disregarding someone because they want to make a better mouse trap, or even a different moue trap.  Competition is good for everyone.



On a very positive note, I ordered about $1500 in accessories Sunday night from WW, including a top cover, Prop hub, safety shaft, and motor mount.  All but the motor mount are on his "A" list of in-stock stuff, and guess what?  This mourning, Thursday, at about 9:00 I received all the "A" list items.  I have not even been able to find a core engine yet, but that is another story.



As I mentioned, I continue to look at other "suppliers" Corvair conversion items, but compared to WW, they are just not in the same field.



Thanks,

Jon Burns

Little Elm, TX

601XL 

Working on Canopy and Engine

gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

Greg,  

   

In addition to all the previous comments, and in William Wynne’s defense, Corvair engines have been successfully used on homebuilts since the 60’s. It has been conjectured that the stresses on the un-nitrided cranks were far less as they were powering such aircraft as the Pietenpol’s and other slower a/c. William, and others, had no reason to doubt the crank. When he started on his quest to be a proponent of Corvair engines, William had the monumental task of flight testing every parameter he could think of, plus all the improvements (and everyone deserves the right to improve). He has been forthright with the events leading up to, and following the broken crank.  

   

BTW – In your post you state “…so many broken cranks…” How many broken cranks do you think there have been? …just curious…  

   

It so happens that I have a factory nitrided crank in my engine, but the re-grinding process has negated the nitriding and I will have to remove the crank and get it re-nitrided. Unfortunately, I don’t know the year of manufacture. I live on the West Coast and have not been to William’s hanger, but I can assure you he is a real person, as I have shaken his hand several times. Whoever told you he was an engineer was mistaken, and I am quite sure that is not a rumor that William would support. He is, however, rightfully proud of being an Emery-Riddle graduate and an A&P, and so states in his web sight and literature.  

   

If you are truly interested in powering a homebuilt with a Corvair, you could do no better than to arm yourself with his manual, whether you buy anything else from him, or not.  

     

Gary Boothe 

 Cool, CA 

 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, 

 Tail done, wings done, working on c-section       

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Kendall

 Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:49 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Corvair engines  

  

   

I'm new to this list so sorry if not up to date on everything.  am trying to decide on an engine and have done some research that might be useful to others. Done a lot of browsing and have some dumb questions

 

 According to my research, Chevy was nitriding its cranks way back in the 60's.  A friend tells me that all aircraft engines have nitrided cranks.  If wynne is an engineer why did it take so long and so many broken cranks for him to recommend nitriding?  am I missing something here?

 

 I found another company called venturay that seems to be into Corvairs.  seems to be a lot of bad blood on this list.  Funny it says that wynne's lawyer told them its a trademark. Someone told me that wynne is an engineer but the only engineer I can find in florida with that name is william wynne grubbs so is that his real name and then william wynne is his company name?

 

 venturay does not have any person's names so it's hard to find anything other than it's corporation. venturay has what appears they say is a real address that matches it"s incorporation but its probably the adddress of its registered agents.  Yeeeah, Delaware is real big on those I hear.

 

 Has anyone ever been to the address in Orange Park from wynns website. is it really just a mailbox? Before I fork over thousands of dollars, I want to know I'm dealing with more than a mailbox. Really hard getting a response from him. before I spend mrore time chasing him i'd like to know.

 

   

        

  

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        [quote][b]

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

Not long ago I was looking for a Corvair core engine and got  an e-mail from ozenith(at)earthlink.net (ozenith(at)earthlink.net)  who had an engine and WW parts that he wanted to sell. You might want to contact  him to see if he still has the engine and parts. I found another engine and I  think a better deal. Well know when 

 I start flying maybe next year. Jerry of  GA 



Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

Jon,

You were lucky on the "A" items, but may need a little patience on the 

engine mount. I've had an "A" item ("readily available") for over 5 weeks, 

and a "C" item ("available in 21-60 days") for over 9 months.



Do not archive.



---

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

I may be wrong, but I believe that not only have  there been only four broken cranks, each instance involved an engine  configeration NOT to WW standards, as with an extended prop hub and/or other  variations that might put additional stress on the crank.

  

     Robin in AR

     601XL Zen-Vair with Wynne-Vair  2900cc in slow mode construction, N601ZV reserved.

 [quote]   ---

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

I meant to say "I've had on order..."



Do not archive.

---

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

Proof is in the puddin'.  Mine is at the top of the

page.



http://zenvair.com/



R/



Brandon

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

CLEONARD52(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: Corvair engines

MY 601XL HAD ITS FINAL INSPECTION AND TEST FLIGHT  LAST MONTH. IT HAS A CORVAIR ENGINE THAT WW PERSONALY HELPED ME REBUILD STEP BY  STEP. I NOW HAVE ALMOST 15 FLIGHT HOURS ON THIS ENGINE AND IT IS  FANTASTIC.

  

 NOW I HAVE A QUESTION, WHEN YOUR PLANE IS FINISHED  AND YOUR ENGINE IS SITTING IN THE GARAGE, WHO IS GOING TO SHOW YOU HOW TO MOUNT  THE ENGINE, HOOK UP ALL THE CONTOLS, GAUGES, HOSES,AND ACCESSORIES. [ THESE  NUMBER IN THE HUNDREDS.]  WW CAN NOT ONLY TELL YOU HOW TO DO IT, HE WILL  RECOMEND WHAT BRAND TO USE IT, AND WHERE TO PURCHASE IT.

  

 I HAD NO BACKGROUND AT ALL IN INSTALLING AN ENGINE  AND ALL ITS ACCESSORIES, BUT WITH WW'S AND GUS WARREN'S ADVICE, I WAS ABLE TO DO  THIS BY MYSELF, WITH GREAT RESULTS.

  

 IF YOU DECIDE ON ANOTHER ENGINE, WHAT ARE YOU GOING  TO DO WITH IT AFTER IT ARRIVES AT YOUR HOUSE, WHO IS GOING TO SHOW YOU HOW TO  INSTALL IT CORRECTLY. YOU WILL FIND THIS IS A VERY BIG JOB.

  

 NO ONE IS PERFECT, BUT YOU WILL NOT GO WRONG IF YOU  DECIDE TO GO THE CORVAIR ROUTE WITH WW.

  

 CHARLES LEONARD

 601XL[FLYING]

   [quote][b]

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Corvair engines

My story is very similar.  William was a  tremendous help with all things firewall forward and I am very happy with the  results.

  

 Gary Ray 601XL with WW 2700cc Corvair installation  35.7 hours TT

 Flying to Oshkosh in 10 days.

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

minoxphotographer(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Corvair engines

For those interested...

William Wynn will also be at Brodhead, WI the weekend of July 21st

(right before Oshkosh) at the Pietenpol fly-in.  He will be doing a

presentation on the Corvair engine at 2 PM that Saturday. Just in case

you'll be in the area, and we won't really mind too much if you show up

in an aluminum airplane!



Tim in Bovey



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