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Baggage door alarm

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Nick Leonard

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Baggage door alarm

For those of you that haven’t put in your door alarms yet, I might suggest a slight improvement.  For some reason Van’s is using a Normally Open (N.O.) reed switch (magnetic contact switch) for the door alarms which requires that you put a relay in-line to reverse the function to a Normally Closed (N.C.) operation.  I wanted to add a door open alarm to the baggage door as well, but didn’t want the added complexity of the relays.  I found a N.C. switch that comes with a flanged press fit for a simple clean installation in the baggage door frame.  I installed it just below the latch area by drilling through from the rib behind the door using the hole that was already there but used for manufacturing the rib and drilled straight through into the baggage door frame.  This same unit can be used in the cabin doors, either mounted as the plans suggest or you could do the press fit at any part along the frame and the magnet press fit into the door.  Now you can wire the units without the relays in-line, simplifying the parts count, weight, and points of failure, plus have the same parts for all locations.  I used mine in combination with the Riverhead-Aero Door Guides and Pins that have the built in magnet in the pins.



The contacts that I found are from GRI (www.grisk.com) and made for the home alarm industry.  I used the 3030-12W (the W is white, also available in brown and black).  It has a 3/8” diameter press fit but is also available in a ¼” as the 60-RF.  They are also available without the flange if you aren’t going to take advantage of the flush fit on the baggage door frame.  Either form factor can be adapted if you need to. They also have several different magnet strengths available.  I would suggest the standard, weakest magnets which should give you up to a ½” gap.   You don’t want to have it reading “closed” while the door is still partially open. The Wide-Gap (-WG) will give you up to a 1” opening.  These units come with 6” wired leads or you can order them with screw terminals.

 

I got mine at Metro Electronics (916-442-1512) in Sacramento.  They have no web ordering (www.metro-electronics.com) but will ship if you call them directly.  I also found them at a place called ASI Home (http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=39&products_id=739)

ASI normally sells them in packages of 10 at $1.63 each for the 3030-12W version and $2.03 for the 60RF-12W. It is about a wash if you buy five sets vs. the package of ten but check the pricing. They all come as a set with the magnet.  I think I paid ~$3.65 for the individual pairs (3030-12W) at Metro.  ASI will also sell them individually but you will need to call them (800-263-8608) to get pricing and availability since they don’t seem to list the 3030 version on the website but do stock some.  When ordering; confirm that you are getting the Normally Closed, 12 volt, flanged (or unflanged), standard magnet, white (if you care), 6” leads (or screw terminals) in either the ¼” or 3/8” version.



If you mount the switches on the doors the way the plans suggest using the Adel clamp rather than the flush mount in the frame you have the advantage of being able to adjust the gap distance which could be helpful if you order the wide gap (WG) version of the magnet.



Enjoy,



Nick

C:916-425-1064

Nick(at)NLeonard.com

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_________________
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Flying

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: Baggage door alarm

The door alarm is a great idea.  Just FYI, while I was doing my tranisition training with Mike Seager, we landed and the door swung open.  During our flight the screw that holds the latch on vibrated out.  It was at least good to know that if you forget to latch it won't just rip off.  I put some red locktite on mine and haven't had any issues. 

 

Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com 



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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2880

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: Baggage door alarm

Whatever you do, don't take this as criticism or anything negative.

It's just something I'm gonna throw out there for thought.



Over the past few years, speaking with people about AHRS and

magnetometer sensitivity, I've come to learn exactly how

sensitive an AHRS magnetometer can be.  They can detect coins

even many feet away, and in fact for installation they

have the installer use non-magnetic hardware.  People have

had things like steel roll cages in the front of the airplane

become slightly magnetized and throw off a magnetometer.  I've

even heard that nickel edged props have caused issues with

AHRS magnetometers. When another friend was having problems

with his Crossbow, Crossbow insisted at first that the problem

was likely caused by his carrying the towbar in the baggage

area.  Recently I was flying and had a lightly magnetic

screwdriver in the front seat...I could watch my vertical card

compass move even with the screwdriver a couple feet away.



I just point this out as something to think about while adding

ANY kind of magnetic sensor to your airframe.  It might all

depend on your avionics systems, where they're mounted, how

sensitive they are, and many factors.  But, I can tell you that

if I were picking a magnetic device to be used in a door sensor,

I'd try to go with the weakest magnet I could.  I myself

am considering buying the rivethead door latch pin setup, but

I'm not sure if I'll want to get the magnetic tips or not

yet. The probably would cause no problems at all, so I

may just get them.  But, it's something to think about.



One thing for certain...if you're using a magnetometer based

system, you'll want to perform a full calibration of it, in

the final magnetic environment, preferably with a running

engine and all avioncs lit up, as there will absolutely be

various magnetic effects that you need to account for.

Using that calibration should help nullify some of the stuff

that you install that might have an effect, as long as it

doesn't move.



All just info to think about, but I'm not trying to discourage

anyone from adding such things....just test for effects along

the way.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

nick(at)nleonard.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nick(at)nleonard.com>

 

 For those of you that haven’t put in your door alarms yet, I might

 suggest a slight improvement.  For some reason Van’s is using a

 Normally Open (N.O.) reed switch (magnetic contact switch) for the

 door alarms which requires that you put a relay in-line to reverse

 the function to a Normally Closed (N.C.) operation.  I wanted to add

 a door open alarm to the baggage door as well, but didn’t want the

 added complexity of the relays.  I found a N.C. switch that comes

 with a flanged press fit for a simple clean installation in the

 baggage door frame.  I installed it just below the latch area by

 drilling through from the rib behind the door using the hole that was

 already there but used for manufacturing the rib and drilled straight

 through into the baggage door frame.  This same unit can be used in

 the cabin doors, either mounted as the plans suggest or you could do

 the press fit at any part along the frame and the magnet press fit

 into the door.  Now you can wire the units ! without the relays

 in-line, simplifying the parts count, weight, and points of failure,

 plus have the same parts for all locations.  I used mine in

 combination with the Riverhead-Aero Door Guides and Pins that have

 the built in magnet in the pins.

 

 The contacts that I found are from GRI (www.grisk.com) and made for

 the home alarm industry.  I used the 3030-12W (the W is white, also

 available in brown and black).  It has a 3/8” diameter press fit

 but is also available in a ¼” as the 60-RF.  They are also

 available without the flange if you aren’t going to take advantage

 of the flush fit on the baggage door frame.  Either form factor can

 be adapted if you need to. They also have several different magnet

 strengths available.  I would suggest the standard, weakest magnets

 which should give you up to a ½” gap.   You don’t want to have

 it reading “closed” while the door is still partially open. The

 Wide-Gap (-WG) will give you up to a 1” opening.  These units come

 with 6” wired leads or you can order them with screw terminals.

 

 I got mine at Metro Electronics (916-442-1512) in Sacramento.  They

 have no web ordering (www.metro-electronics.com) but will ship if you

 call them directly.  I also found them at a place called ASI Home

 (http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=39&products_id=739)

  ASI normally sells them in packages of 10 at $1.63 each for the

 3030-12W version and $2.03 for the 60RF-12W. It is about a wash if

 you buy five sets vs. the package of ten but check the pricing. They

 all come as a set with the magnet.  I think I paid ~$3.65 for the

 individual pairs (3030-12W) at Metro.  ASI will also sell them

 individually but you will need to call them (800-263-8608) to get

 pricing and availability since they don’t seem to list the 3030

 version on the website but do stock some.  When ordering; confirm

 that you are getting the Normally Closed, 12 volt, flanged (or

 unflanged), standard magnet, white (if you care), 6” leads (or

 screw terminals) in either the ¼” or 3/8” version.

 

 If you mount the switches on the doors the way the plans suggest

 using the Adel clamp rather than the flush mount in the frame you

 have the advantage of being able to adjust the gap distance which

 could be helpful if you order the wide gap (WG) version of the

 magnet.

 

 Enjoy,

 

 Nick C:916-425-1064 Nick(at)NLeonard.com

 

 -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish

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Ted French

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Kelowna BC Canada

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: Baggage door alarm

I used micro switches for all my door adjar indicators. More positive than

magnets and no stray magnetic fields to mess things up.

See http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/RV-10_main.htm , go to the blog and open

the February archive. Go to the bottom of the page for photos.



Ted French

C-FXCS flying



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_________________
Ted French
RV-10 fuselage

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Baggage door alarm

Tim you continue to bring a smile to my face as you share valuable

insight into our wonderful RV-10 aircraft and its assemblage.



I can vouch first hand on the accuracy of your observation and the

importance of equipment placement and installation procedures.  All too

often we plunge into the build without being fully informed on the

casual/effect of our actions.  Not long ago there was a post on the need

for a magnetic compass and that device too is significantly effected by

ferrous product placement, energizing of electric circuitry and the use

of non magnetic tools.



AHRS is a wonderful thing.  Boy do you make this list a pleasure to read

even for the daily lurker.  Those who have asked me to do an EAA

progress inspection know that I ask them to consider serviceability when

they are wildly throwing parts from the pile into a precision build.

The day you stop as the manufacturer you immediately begin to go "Wow, I

wish I had thought about that earlier".  The Repairman in each of us

will appreciate the time invested in our planning during manufacturing,

once it is assembled and we begin the "Safe Maintenance Cycle" after our

flyoff.



John Cox

#40600

EAA Tech #5242



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