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Shower of Sparks

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tdawson-townsend(at)auror
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks

Bob:  

   

In discussing Shower of Sparks ignition, you have mentioned Unison Slick Start.  On the Aircraft Spruce webpage, then imply that Slick Start is only for use with  Slick magnetos, not Bendix units.  Do you think there’s a technical reason, or that’s just certification/lawyer talk?  

   

Thanks,  

      

   

Tim Dawson-Townsend  

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)   

617-500-4812 (office)  

617-905-4800 (mobile)  

   

      [quote][b]

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks

At 01:40 PM 8/22/2007 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob:



In discussing Shower of Sparks ignition, you have mentioned Unison Slick 

Start.  On the Aircraft Spruce webpage, then imply that Slick Start is 

only for use with  Slick magnetos, not Bendix units.  Do you think there s 

a technical reason, or that s just certification/lawyer talk?



Thanks,


	


   Shower of Sparks or "SOS" enhancement to magneto performance

   still stands out in my mind as one of those extra-ordinary

   examples of clever design from the CSP era (copper, steel

   phenolic). Contemporary designers can select from millions

   of commercial off the shelf parts and in particular, little

   chunks of multi-legged plastic offering functionality from

   "simple" amplifiers (20 transistors!) to gigaflop-fast

   super-processors (tens of thousands of transistors).



   In the time when Shower of Sparks was crafted, the catalog

   of materials available to our creative ancestors was limited

   to a relatively few, rudimentary components. Yet, by understanding

   the simple-ideas for the materials at hand and the task to

   be accomplished, devices like . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/ALTREG2.jpg



   were produced with out-the-door performance on a par with

   the later . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_SS_Reg_open.jpg



   or most modern incarnations like . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Alternator_Regulators.jpg



   Shower of sparks was conceived as a melding of magneto

   and Kettering ignition systems for battery enhancement

   of spark energy during low speed operations (cranking).

   The enhancement had two important features . . . a

   battery excited, electromechanical "buzzer" that would

   supply the magneto primary with a rapidly repeating

   pulse of energy from the battery and a second set of

   delayed-timing, cranking-points temporarily switched

   in parallel with the advanced-timing, running-points.

   See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Shower-of-Sparks/ShowerOfSparks.pdf



   I've not been made privy to the simple-ideas that support

   functionality of the Slick Start. My present

   understanding of the product suggests that it does not

   require a second set of points. From this I infer

   the device is fitted with some intelligence that

   delays delivery of battery enhanced pulses by some

   amount which emulates the delayed-timing points common

   to the earlier system.



   Assuming my understanding is correct, then I can

   deduce no reason why the product (or one exceedingly

   similar to it) wouldn't function with any brand

   of magneto. But without the support of the designers

   or a cognizant technician, we'll not have enough

   information to craft a definitive answer to your

   question. Perhaps someone on the List has a lead

   on the details of this systems design and operation.



   Bob . . .

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks

8/23/2007



Hello Tim, Will you permit a non Bob to answer?



Unison originaly built the SlickSTART P/N SS1001 for only Slick magnetos. In 

1998 they added SlickSTART P/N SS1002 for use with TCM/Bendix magnetos.



So which version of the SlickSTART Magneto Start Booster (solid state 

ignition starting vibrator) you use will depend upon which brand of magnetos 

you use.



The Unison Service Letter L-1492 (Revision D is current) contains a caution 

that says using P/N SS1001 with Bendix/TCM magnetos may result in magneto 

damage and engine stoppage.



There are some fairly recent postings in the aeroelectric archives that may 

be of value or interest to someone considering SlickSTART. I suggest that 

you search for SoS Vibrator Recommendations, or Slick Start. You can also 

pick out the pertinent items if you search for bakerocb.



Please let me know if you have any further questions.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge."



PS: It would be more precise if we used the generic term "starting vibrator" 

when writing in general about this subject and reserve "Shower of Sparks" 

for referring specifically to the TCM/Bendix mechanical vibrator and 

"SlickSTART" for referring specifically to the Unison solid state starting 

vibrator.



---------------- RESPONDING TO ----------------------------------------



Time: 10:41:48 AM PST US

Subject: Shower of Sparks

From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>



Bob:



In discussing Shower of Sparks ignition, you have mentioned Unison Slick

Start.  On the Aircraft Spruce webpage, then imply that Slick Start is

only for use with  Slick magnetos, not Bendix units.  Do you think

there's a technical reason, or that's just certification/lawyer talk?

Thanks,

Tim Dawson-Townsend



tdt(at)aurora.aero



617-500-4812 (office)



617-905-4800 (mobile)

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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retasker(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks

Nothing to do with shower of sparks, but you should be aware that the 

"gigaflop-fast super-processors" now include over one "billion" 

transistors, and fast approaching tens of billions!



Dick



Do not archive



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>



   chunks of multi-legged plastic offering functionality from

   "simple" amplifiers (20 transistors!) to gigaflop-fast

   super-processors (tens of thousands of transistors).

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks

8/24/2007



Hello Bob,



1) You wrote: "Perhaps someone on the List has a lead on the details of this 

systems design and operation."



Looking at the patent for the Unison SlickSTART Magneto Start Booster may 

provide some helpful information. See this link:



http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=5630384.PN.&OS=PN/5630384&RS=PN/5630384



If that doesn't work just Google "US Patent 5630384" (thanks to Eric).



2) You wrote: "My present understanding of the product suggests that it does 

not require a second set of points. From this I infer the device is fitted 

with some intelligence that delays delivery of battery enhanced pulses by 

some amount which emulates the delayed-timing points common to the earlier 

system."



You are correct that the solid state SlickSTART unit does not require a 

second set of points, but it does not incorporate any internal delayed 

timing.



To explain: To take best advantage of the SlickSTART's longer duration and 

higher peak voltage sparking over that provided by just an impulse coupled 

magneto a magneto with a set of retard breaker points is required. However, 

if the SlickSTART unit is used with an impulse coupled magneto with a single 

set of points there will still be an increase in both peak output voltage 

and sparks per sequence over that which would be provided by the impulse 

coupling acting alone.



A copy of Unison's SlickSTART brochure and its claims can be found at this 

link:



http://www.unisonindustries.com/docs/Slickstartflyer_1493.pdf



3) You wrote: "Assuming my understanding is correct, then I can deduce no 

reason why the product (or one exceedingly similar to it) wouldn't function 

with any brand of magneto."



I can't offer any technical reason, but can only repeat what I posted 

earlier on this specific point:



 "The Unison Service Letter L-1492 (Revision D is current) contains a 

caution

that says using P/N SS1001 with Bendix/TCM magnetos may result in magneto

damage and engine stoppage."



Unison does provide SlickSTART P/N SS1002 for use with the TCM/Bendix 

magnetos.



Some general comments:



A) I have been operating my amateur built experimental aircraft equipped 

with a TCM IO-240 B9B engine and a SlickSTART P/N SS1001 magneto start 

booster for over 185 hours.



B) The left magneto is a Slick P/N 4310 with a set of retard breaker points. 

The SlickSTART booster is connected to this magneto. The right magneto is a 

Slick P/N 4309 direct drive with no impulse coupling or retard breaker 

points.



C) The engine is cranked with the right magneto grounded out during 

cranking.



D) I had difficulty in obtaining enough information on the functioning of 

the SlickSTART unit from Unison to make my initial wiring installation. This 

was because all of their installation information was based on the 

assumption that one was removing a TCM/Bendix "Shower of Sparks" unit and 

replacing it with the SlickSTART unit. It was difficult to reverse engineer 

their instructions into a "start from scratch" situation. After a false 

start response from the Unison marketing department, and follow up detailed 

correspondence with their tech support people, I was able to make the 

installation.



E) I am very satisfied with the performance of my SlickSTART unit and would 

highly recommend it to anyone using conventional magnetos instead of 

electronic ignition in their Lycoming or TCM engine.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge."



------------------  RESPONDING 

TO ----------------------------------------------



Time: 06:00:17 AM PST US

From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: Shower of Sparks

At 01:40 PM 8/22/2007 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob:

In discussing Shower of Sparks ignition, you have mentioned Unison Slick

Start.  On the Aircraft Spruce webpage, then imply that Slick Start is

only for use with  Slick magnetos, not Bendix units.  Do you think there s

a technical reason, or that s just certification/lawyer talk?

Thanks,


	


   Shower of Sparks or "SOS" enhancement to magneto performance

   still stands out in my mind as one of those extra-ordinary

   examples of clever design from the CSP era (copper, steel

   phenolic). Contemporary designers can select from millions

   of commercial off the shelf parts and in particular, little

   chunks of multi-legged plastic offering functionality from

   "simple" amplifiers (20 transistors!) to gigaflop-fast

   super-processors (tens of thousands of transistors).



   In the time when Shower of Sparks was crafted, the catalog

   of materials available to our creative ancestors was limited

   to a relatively few, rudimentary components. Yet, by understanding

   the simple-ideas for the materials at hand and the task to

   be accomplished, devices like . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/ALTREG2.jpg



   were produced with out-the-door performance on a par with

   the later . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_SS_Reg_open.jpg



   or most modern incarnations like . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Alternator_Regulators.jpg



   Shower of sparks was conceived as a melding of magneto

   and Kettering ignition systems for battery enhancement

   of spark energy during low speed operations (cranking).

   The enhancement had two important features . . . a

   battery excited, electromechanical "buzzer" that would

   supply the magneto primary with a rapidly repeating

   pulse of energy from the battery and a second set of

   delayed-timing, cranking-points temporarily switched

   in parallel with the advanced-timing, running-points.

   See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Shower-of-Sparks/ShowerOfSparks.pdf



   I've not been made privy to the simple-ideas that support

   functionality of the Slick Start. My present

   understanding of the product suggests that it does not

   require a second set of points. From this I infer

   the device is fitted with some intelligence that

   delays delivery of battery enhanced pulses by some

   amount which emulates the delayed-timing points common

   to the earlier system.



   Assuming my understanding is correct, then I can

   deduce no reason why the product (or one exceedingly

   similar to it) wouldn't function with any brand

   of magneto. But without the support of the designers

   or a cognizant technician, we'll not have enough

   information to craft a definitive answer to your

   question. Perhaps someone on the List has a lead

   on the details of this systems design and operation.



   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

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