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drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: Alodine |
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For my current RV, I alumini preped, alodine and then put SW primer on
all the interior surfaces. I am happy with what I have chosen to do
with this plane. Is there anything wrong with just stopping with the
alodine step? Someday, (ok, maybe after my current wife is no longer
able to remember how much I spent on the 10) I'd like to build an rv 12
to have for fun day VFR . I have seen a couple of RV 10 's with no
interior prep/treatment. Would doing nothing be better than
something? With nothing, one does have the pure aluminum which does
have an oxidized layer. With the alodine, we are adding a chromic
oxidized layer. Thoughts? anybody have any real data?
Fred Williams
40515
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: Alodine |
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Doing something wrong can sometimes be worse than doing nothing. Doing
nothing in a harsh maritime or high humidity climate might justify more
protection. Some aircraft can sit in storage in the dry heat of Arizona
for decades with little corrosion effects.
Primer wars aside, some builders stop at a well prepared "Alodined"
surface which in fact exceeds the techniques used many Certificated
manufacturers (like Cessna and Piper). Others apply primer with no
intent to ever cover it with a final topcoat paint. Primer begs for a
properly formulated topcoat that is applied reasonable soon after the
primer. That step adds weight, some additional protection and an
attraction for the primer (without topcoat) to absorb hydrocarbons,
human oils, dirt and other organics over decades. The choice of
protection is that of every kit builder. Some of my closest friends
throw primer without topcoat at their plane. They are the
manufacturer... they make the choice.
Corrosion as a result of the faying action (wicking) of alkaline soaps
(improperly used and not removed) does far worse. Exfoliation and
filiform are just two corrosions that love such inattention over that
time period. It is always tragic to remediate corrosion on a perfectly
good aircraft. The only consolation for me is that my employer will
throw unlimited sums of money at correcting neglect down life's highway.
A seasoned Boeing 747 can gain as much as 5% of its certificated empty
weight in lost tools, FOD, swarf, old paint, waste hydrocarbons and
human organics when it is finally laid to rest.
Choice wisely. Have pride in your creation.
John Cox
40600
Do not Archive
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: Alodine |
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One more thing to toss into the mix. There is a BIG difference between priming and sealing a surface. For example if you look at a popular epoxy primer/sealer, PPG's DP (now DPLF for "lead free") line, it is listed as both a primer and a sealer but, being a catalyzed epoxy paint, it is really meant to seal a surface. A sealer is specifically formulated to get it to flow out and form a unified layer that will protect a surface. A straight primer WILL NOT protect a surface long term as it is usually porous. To me this makes priming, rather than sealing, even more dangerous than leaving bare metal as you might not see the corrosion forming. Some primers can also be used as a sealer, usually by increasing the amount of reducer, but only if it is formulated that way.
In using any sealer or primer, regardless of what the product says, I would scuff and/or etch the surface before applying for good adhesion. If also alodining I would scuff while etching, then alodine, then shoot sealer, all within the shortest amount of time as practical. All of my parts are alodined and anything that will be painted later will go through a full reprep before I shoot. Personally I would seal and then go with a good quality, high build, primer/surface like PPG K36 for the cosmetic work, and then top coat. Always try to use products from a single vendor though as they are formulated to work together.
I am by no means an expert, slept at a Holiday Inn Express, or paint anything for a living, but I have spent a great deal of time researching painting vehicles over the years and my comments above represent a aggregation of some of the basics.
YMMV, my $0.02, use the above advice at your own risk, etc
Michael
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Dick Sipp
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Alodine |
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There is at least one primer designed to be a final interior protective
coating with no top coat required. PPG Super Koropon. Used on Gulfstreams
and Boeings at least up until a few years ago for interior structures.
Areas in and around gallies and lavs got a whole nother process.
Dick Sipp
N110DV moving to airport
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jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.c
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: Alodine |
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Akzo is also a great epoxy primer/sealer that does not require a topcoat.
John
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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
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drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: Alodine |
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After thinking some more about the "green/blue precipitate" I googled
alodine and started looking down the list. I recommend using a
respirator when mixing the powder. Inhaled in humans it is reported to
be carcinogenic.
I think the trash can idea on wheels is a good one.
Fred Williams, MD.
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