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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: Fossil Fuels (was: Fuel tanks and TCP) |
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Noel had sed:
| Quote: | On Oct 13, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>The lobbyists conveniently keep saying there is less tailpipe emissions.
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To which Michel sez:
| Quote: | If you grow a tree then burn it, you keep nature in balance. If you
burn fossil fuel, you upset the balance ... I think.
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I think the point Noel is making is two-fold. Auto fuels containing
ethanol or other oxygenating agents produce less power. Since
"burning" is the act of combining the fuel with oxygen, these fuels
are, essentially, partially "burned" when you put them into the tank.
As a result, you burn more of it to get equivalent performance.
Second, ethanol is energy neutral. That is, it takes as much energy
to refine it as you get out of it, so it's more of a storage medium
than an energy source. Dead dinosaurs, on the other hand, produce an
order of magnitude more energy than extracting and refining the fuel
does.
There are other negative side-affects to burning our food supply in
cars and airplanes. Global prices for corn have sky-rocketed in the
last year or two causing rioting in areas where corn is a staple
food, like Mexico, because average folks can't afford to buy it any
more. The amount of corn required to make one tank of ethanol (full
strength, not at 10% concentration) would feed a person for a year.
There's got to be a better source of energy for our power-hungry world.
Mike G.
N728KF
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: Fossil Fuels (was: Fuel tanks and TCP) |
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So well said!
Noel
[quote] --
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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mosquito56
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Laredo, Tx
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Fossil Fuels (was: Fuel tanks and TCP) |
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Ethonol is only a green fuel when it is produced by a clean engery source such as hydro, windmill, or any other natural energy source. Since most of the power produced in the U.S. is from coal, most ethanol is not a green fuel.
Having been reading about this topic for 20 years now, I knew we would begin using ethonol in cars long ago. I was hoping it wouldn't be until after I died but thanks to the American Military and the Chinese we now have three dollar a gallon gas. The break even point on ethanol is $2.50 a gal.
Brazil started in the 80's when ethanol was an expensive alternative since gas was much cheaper to run than ethanol. Now that ethanol is cheaper than gas, (gas got expensive, ethanol did not get cheap), they wil now maintain a less expensive energy technology. One thing I am not sure of is will the cost of the biomass raise as the demand increasing with the purchase of ethanol?
We will never switch to alternative energy sources until it is economical to do so. We all think about global warming and how we want to correct it. I think it every time I drive my suv to work, go skiing in my boat or fly my leaded fuel engine in my plane.
Don
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: Fossil Fuels (was: Fuel tanks and TCP) |
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Don :
The fact you consider the greenhouse gasses etc every time you burn leaded
fuel, run your boat or SUV shows that you are already concerned about the
state of the atmosphere. The desire for a greener fuel is growing.
Eventually we will have it. Regardless of where we live that has to be
true.
Even distilled with wind or solar power the ethanol isn't green. The amount
of fuel required to grow the stuff, in an active farming environment, and
the amount of CO2 given off during the fermentation more than wipes out any
"green" tendencies it may have had. Crude oil is far greener by comparison.
It is refined to give several grades of oil, tar and plastics while still
providing fuel. We all agree the crude oil is not green therefore ethanol
is worse.
The mission of this list is to safely fly our Kitfoxes. I have a lot more
to say on the topic of alternative fuels but this is not the place. I harp
on ethanol because I don't think it is not safe to fly.
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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