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Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Dave,



Thanks for the post and if you don't mind, I will use this opportunity for 

an update.  First, I have no real idea as to the cause of the low oil 

pressure indication.  A friend at the accident scene checked the oil tank 

and it contained oil.  Just how much, I don't know as he had never seen me 

check the oil and he had no idea what full was.



Tomorrow marks the fourth week since the "rough" landing.  Kay and I are 

doing fine and are pretty much able to take care of each other.  I am still 

in the "clam shell" brace who a friend reminded me resembles almost exactly 

the chest covering costume of the Ninja Turtles, though mine is a boring 

white.  Another friend mentioned that it would be a better design if it had 

cup holders molded into it.  That would be nice at times.  It does make an 

adequate table, though, when lying down eating.



I mention the brace as I am not allowed up without it and showering is 

prohibited until at least the 6th week.  For that reason I do need help with 

a sponging off every other day and have help in that area.  Kay can't do it 

as she is still in her cast from the broken and pinned thumb.



I met with the FAA a couple of weeks ago and recieved calls from AIG and 

NTSB.  The former and latter are interested in having Rotax look at the 

engine and instrumentation to determine the cause of the low oil indication. 

And AIG was most helpful, reminding me that the passenger liability applied 

to Kay, even though she was my wife.  I couldn't be more happy with the 

insurance company.



I can't finish whithout  a mention of the big four.  These are the documents 

all three entities will be most interested in.  Make sure your log book has 

your latest BFR logged and it is current.  Make sure your license and 

medical are current and in your possesion and of course make sure the annual 

condition inspection is logged in your aircraft log book.  The FAA also 

asked about the Airworthiness Certificate and the Registration.  I told them 

they were in the aircraft (where they should be) and where they would find 

them.



The Kitfox is in a secured area of a nearby aircraft "boneyard" and I 

finally recieved the copy of the insurance claim to file - the first came 

shortly after the accident, but we had so many local friends cleaning up our 

house for us we can't find anything anymore.  I still have personal items in 

the airplane - my small overnight bag etc. which are available to me as I 

can arrange for a pick up, but the airpane, according to the FAA is 

essentially owned by the insurance company, unless I make other 

arrangements.



All in all everything is going well - stronger every day and the appetite is 

improving despite the brace limiting both lung and stomach capacity.  We are 

in good spirits and are grateful for the support we have had from so many.



Thank you all so very much,



Lowell and Kay



---

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Lowell, thank you so much for the update.  You are in all of our thoughts and we share to the extent possible what you are experiencing.

  

 John Kerr

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> 



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" 

 

 Dave, 

 

 Thanks for the post and if you don't mind, I will use this opportunity for 

 an update. First, I have no real idea as to the cause of the low oil 

 pressure indication. A friend at the accident scene checked the oil tank 

 and it contained oil. Just how much, I don't know as he had never seen me 

 check the oil and he had no idea what full was. 

 

 Tomorrow marks the fourth week since the "rough" landing. Kay and I are 

 doing fine and are pretty much able to take care of each other. I am still 

 in the "clam shell" brace who a friend reminded me resembles almost exactly 

 the chest covering costume of   the Ni nja Turtles, though mine is a boring 

 white. Another friend mentioned that it would be a better design if it had 

 cup holders molded into it. That would be nice at times. It does make an 

 adequate table, though, when lying down eating. 

 

 I mention the brace as I am not allowed up without it and showering is 

 prohibited until at least the 6th week. For that reason I do need help with 

 a sponging off every other day and have help in that area. Kay can't do it 

 as she is still in her cast from the broken and pinned thumb. 

 

 I met with the FAA a couple of weeks ago and recieved calls from AIG and 

 NTSB. The former and latter are interested in having Rotax look at the 

 engine and instrumentation to determine the cause of the low oil indication. 

 And AIG was most helpful, reminding me that the passenger liability applied 

 to Kay, even though she was my wife. I couldn't be   more  happy with the 

 insurance company. 

 

 I can't finish whithout a mention of the big four. These are the documents 

 all three entities will be most interested in. Make sure your log book has 

 your latest BFR logged and it is current. Make sure your license and 

 medical are current and in your possesion and of course make sure the annual 

 condition inspection is logged in your aircraft log book. The FAA also 

 asked about the Airworthiness Certificate and the Registration. I told them 

 they were in the aircraft (where they should be) and where they would find 

 them. 

 

 The Kitfox is in a secured area of a nearby aircraft "boneyard" and I 

 finally recieved the copy of the insurance claim to file - the first came 

 shortly after the accident, but we had so many local friends cleaning up our 

 house for us we can't find anything anymore. I still have personal items in   

&g t; the airplane - my small overnight bag etc. which are available to me as I 
	


[quote] can arrange for a pick up, but the airpane, according to the FAA is 

 essentially owned by the insurance company, unless I make other 

 arrangements. 

 

 All in all everything is going well - stronger every day and the appetite is 

 improving despite the brace limiting both lung and stomach capacity. We are 

 in good spirits and are grateful for the support we have had from so many. 

 

 Thank you all so very much, 

 

 Lowell and Kay 

 

 ---

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

On Sep 26, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   All in all everything is going well - stronger every day and the 

 appetite is improving despite the brace limiting both lung and stomach 

 capacity.  We are in good spirits and are grateful for the support we 

 have had from so many.


	


Good to hear from you, Lowell! May I ask you: since you ended upside 

down, you pitchpoled, didn't you? How did it happen? An obstacle on the 

ground?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Lowell , thanks for update. And please let us know what the cause was to low oil pressure " indication"   Was there any evidence of  low oil pressure other than the gauge?  IE  increased temps,  engine noise etc ?  

you said that oil was found in tank which is good  but was it being pumped or just not indicated ?   There are  thousands of 912s out there and hopefully we can find out what happened. 



Dave 





 	  Quote: 	
		  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??     



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lowell, 



I have a friend who has bought a 912 ul Kitfox IV and he is not on this forum but he has heard about your accident. Have you determined what the cause was of your loss of oil pressure that happened on your plane ? 



Certainly we can all learn from this hopefully. 



Glad to have read that you and your wife survived the forced approach. 



Dave

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Michel asks:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good to hear from you, Lowell! May I ask you: since you ended upside 

down, you pitchpoled, didn't you? How did it happen? An obstacle on 

the ground?


	


I can't speak for Lowell but from the photos I've seen, the airplane 

was upright when it came to rest, Michel.



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

To reply to some good quetions:



We took off at about 0620 or so with the plan to meet up with two other 

airplanes, a Rans S6 and a Model IV Kitfox at Placerville about 15 to 20 

miles east.  It was actually to have been a flight of 4 but Keith called 

about 6:15 reporting battery problems and that he would be aborting the 

trip.  As Kay and I climbed out, I noticed that we had entered an inversion 

layer about 600 ft agl which resulted in oil and CHT temps 20 or so degrees 

higher than I usually see.  We were in the middle of a hot spell and 

inversion layers are common in the mornings sometimes hitting the 90s. I 

shallowed the climb to more of a cruise climb and kept monitering the temps 

which resulted in eye contact when the oil temps dropped.



Cameron Park is over the second ridge of low hills that change the flat 

Central Valley of California to the steep Sierra Nevada Mountains.  Flying 

east we were getting into more rolling hills with few open areas and fewer 

areas of flat terrain.  Most of the trees are oak with a few straggley 

pines, with manzanita and redbud and small tree like bushes.  From the air, 

for the most part, the ground is forested as described.



At the time of the low oil pressure indication, we were over a clearing, 

probably 100 yards on a diameter or so.  Power lines were in the north edge 

and we both saw them.  I simply made a decision to get it onto the ground 

while I had some control and proceeded to do that.  I have avoided thinking 

too much about alternatives to what I did, simply because of the mostly 

satisfactory outcome and the fact that any other thing I might have done 

introduces as many, as bad as, or worse, outcome possibilities as  good ones 

or better.  Returning to the field would indeed have been a possibility if I 

had continued to climb at best rate, ignoring the temps, or just had ignored 

the oil pressure indication and continues to climb until engine stop.  As I 

said, these add up to a whole new set of possibilities good and bad.  The 

problem here is that if I had made these decisions, it would have been 

primarily to save the airplane, and after lots of reading, including here on 

the list, most wisdom suggests that the airplane is the only thing involved 

in the experience that can be replaced.



Once on the ground and looking over at Kay and asking if she was OK and 

getting a positive response was all I needed to ratify my decision.  Having 

not gotten that response, I can only imagine the second guessing I would 

have subjected myself to for the past four weeks and likely for the rest of 

my life.



I might say also, and Kay and I have discussed it in depth, neither of us 

were frightened through the whole thing. That falls in the face of what I 

would have predicted.  She trusted in me and I trusted in the airplane to do 

what I wanted it to do.



That said, though,  even though I have had lots of short field landings with 

the adventure group I have flown with, I should have worked harder in 

practicing for this sort of event as others have done.  As we approached the 

ground we were still a bit high and running out of clearing,  I pitched up 

and gave it what throttle it would take to try to get behind the power curve 

as I needed to get it onto the ground as quickly and softly as possible. 

After this I have no memory.  We were both conscious on the ground and 

rolled out or the airplane on our own.  The airplane never went inverted 

despite news reports to the contrary.  Witnesses said we came to rest on the 

top of a little knoll near a road at the edge of the clearing.  It was on 

this road that the emergency personnel used to get to us.  The land owner 

was in his barn doing morning chores and was at plane side within a minute, 

cell phone in hand.  I can't help it, but tears come to my eyes every time I 

see him in my memory standing over my wife with a look on his face that 

shouted his concern for us - total strangers.  A county sherriff car 

appeared within another minute and EMT and fire all within 10 minutes.



I welcomed oxygen as I had cracked ribs and my inabity to catch my breath 

was my greatest concern at the time.  We were both initially strapped to 

back boards as a precaution and taken to a local emergency center.  Later 

that day we were transferred to the facility where we have our health 

insurance, Kaiser Premanente. We were told initially, that we had landed in 

a friend's back yard who was a big mover in the sheriff's search and rescue 

posse.  It  turned out to have been his neighbor, though.



This is pretty much as I reported it to FAA with a bit more detail here for 

friends.  If any have other questions, I will try to answer them as best I 

can.



Regards,



Lowell

---

rexinator(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Lowell,

 Glad that you both are doing better and will recover.



 This incident makes me wonder about the fantastic claims of some oil 

additives that show engines running with the drain plug removed and zero 

oil pressure for long periods. Prolong is a brand that comes to mind.



I'm not wanting to start a oil debate, really. Just wondering if it 

would have worked.



-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs



Lowell Fitt wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I met with the FAA a couple of weeks ago and recieved calls from AIG 

 and NTSB.  The former and latter are interested in having Rotax look 

 at the engine and instrumentation to determine the cause of the low 

 oil indication. And AIG was most helpful, reminding me that the 

 passenger liability applied to Kay, even though she was my wife.  I 

 couldn't be more happy with the insurance company.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Thanks for sharing this with us Lowell.  I'm happy that you and Kay are 

doing okay.  I think we all know that hindsight is generally 20-20 and all 

the what-ifs and second guessing won't change a thing.  When these things 

happen there is very little time to mull things over and instincts take 

control and we react the best we can.  From what I can see your judgment 

saved the lives of both of you and I commend you for that.  Again, thanks 

for letting us know what happened.

My best regards,

Deke



---

marwynne(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Just  short comment about your incident.  I am so glad it came out as well 

as it did.   I have been in a similar situation , forced landing the some 

trees.

I believe you made the right decisions.  You are here to tell the story 

(very good).   Everybody will try to second guess you, don't let it bother 

you.   They weren't the Pilot in command and you were very successful. 

They goodness you and your lady are safe and doing better.



Great to hear you back on the group.



Marwynne

A Crash survivor.

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

Good job on the forced approach Lowell.  

I have been flying for nearly 30 years  and had 4  realtime forced approaches myself in various aircraft. 

-loss of power  Cessna - landed at International airport

- carb fell off - Rotax home built - landed in field fixed and took off again

- carbon fouled plug on single ignition hombuilt  -  landed in field fixed and took off again

- prop departure - home built  - dead-sticked into  field, got a trailer , loaded and took back to shop. Could not fly out as the engine was hanging by just a few bolts and lines, some were sheared off. 



It is a sudden shock when it happens and the latter of the 4 incidents was the most sudden and shocking as the windshield blew out , door s popped open and dash literally fell into lap.  Luckily I did ok on it and never even had to do a diaper change  <snicker> 



Anyone who would second guess a forced approach has likely never had one.  You likely have seen them but i did a few dead-stick videos on you tube last year as well as an airstart.  go to  www.cfisher.com  look for link to you tube .



Please ;et us know what caused the low oil temps and pressure . Was it a 912 UL or  912 s ? 



Dave

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: Lowell's oil pressure problem. ??

After my accident my passenger and I spent some time discussing the 

what-ifs.  What if we had been higher?  What if the plane had rolled 

to the right rather than the left?  What if...?  Obviously, you can 

play that game both ways.  What if we had been lower?  What if we had 

hit harder?  It didn't take long to realize that such musing were 

worse than pointless.



It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback but Lowell's right.  The 

way to produce a successful outcome in an emergency situation is to 

practice that situation until your responses become instinctive.



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

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