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TruTrak EFIS SG

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tompkinsl(at)integra.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

Subsequent to my previous post, I contacted  TruTrak.  They confirmed that the operating system for the EFIS SG is NOT  Windows based.  Rather it is dedicated code written by their engineers  in-house.

  

 The TruTrak EFIS SG is attractive to me  because it isn't overloaded with the "bells and whistles" alluded to in my  previous post.

  

 Dynon also writes their own code.

  

 Larry

   [quote][b]

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

The other good thing about the Trutrak EFIS is that it frames much more quickly than just about anything else on the market (at 60 Hz IIRC) – that is probably 3 times faster than anything else at the moment.   

   

From a previous life I know that fast updates are really good news when flying in IMC. Lags of > 100ms from the airplane moving to the motion being shown on the display (either due to slow framing rate or poor design) have a significant impact on the pilot’s ability to fly well.  

   

Peter  

   

--

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

Peter Pengilly wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 The other good thing about the Trutrak EFIS is that it frames much 

 more quickly than just about anything else on the market (at 60 Hz 

 IIRC) – that is probably 3 times faster than anything else at the moment.



 From a previous life I know that fast updates are really good news 

 when flying in IMC. Lags of > 100ms from the airplane moving to the 

 motion being shown on the display (either due to slow framing rate or 

 poor design) have a significant impact on the pilot’s ability to fly 

 well.



100ms update rate resolves to 10Hz. Is 60Hz a selling point when most 
	


people can resolve more than about 20Hz? Not saying that it's bad to 

update faster, just that it doesn't buy you anything.

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

Hmm...Never noticed that effect with my Dynon...It never  seemed to lag the real horizon no matter how bad the  turbulence.

  

 Frank RV 7a



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter  Pengilly

Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 1:14 PM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:  TruTrak EFIS SG

 

  

The other good thing  about the Trutrak EFIS is that it frames much more quickly than just about  anything else on the market (at 60 Hz IIRC) – that is probably 3 times faster  than anything else at the moment.  

  

From a previous life  I know that fast updates are really good news when flying in IMC. Lags of >  100ms from the airplane moving to the motion being shown on the display (either  due to slow framing rate or poor design) have a significant impact on the  pilot’s ability to fly well. 

  

Peter 

  

-----Original  Message-----

From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry L. Tompkins,  P.E.

Sent: 24 September 2007  16:57

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: TruTrak EFIS  SG 

   

Subsequent to my previous post, I  contacted TruTrak.  They confirmed that the operating system for the EFIS  SG is NOT Windows based.  Rather it is dedicated code written by their  engineers in-house.

  

 

  

The TruTrak EFIS SG is  attractive to me because it isn't overloaded with the "bells and whistles"  alluded to in my previous post.

  

 

  

Dynon also writes their own  code.

  

 

  

Larry

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

Good Afternoon Echristley,   

 I know absolutely nothing about all of those numbers you are mentioning,  but a faster update rate buys you a LOT when you are using the instrument for  flight control. 

  

 How do your numbers compare to the Garmin 396 and the Garmin 496  numbers?

  

 While it is possible to use the flight instrument screen on a Garmin 196,  296 or 396 as a back up set of flight instruments, the 496 has a five times  faster update rate than does the 396 and it is a LOT easier to fly.  

  

 The faster the update rate, the faster you can notice a turn. Stop the turn  and you will survive. Let the turn go for a few seconds and you will die.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 9/24/2007 3:57:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  echristley(at)nc.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  100ms    update rate resolves to 10Hz. Is 60Hz a selling point when most 

people can    resolve more than about 20Hz? Not saying that it's bad to 

update faster,    just that it doesn't buy you anything.

	


 





See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

true, but there is fast  and really fast...If I roll my RV as fast it will go the Dynon tracks the  horizon all the way round...How fast do you need?

  

 Perfectly happy with both  my Dynon and Trutrak pictorial pilot in horrid turbulent IMC...They work great.  hard for me to see the benefit of an increased update rate over and above what  I'm getting already.

  

 frank



   From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  BobsV35B(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:40  PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:  TruTrak EFIS SG

 

   Good Afternoon Echristley,   

 I know absolutely nothing about all of those numbers you are mentioning,  but a faster update rate buys you a LOT when you are using the instrument for  flight control. 

  

 How do your numbers compare to the Garmin 396 and the Garmin 496  numbers?

  

 While it is possible to use the flight instrument screen on a Garmin 196,  296 or 396 as a back up set of flight instruments, the 496 has a five times  faster update rate than does the 396 and it is a LOT easier to fly.  

  

 The faster the update rate, the faster you can notice a turn. Stop the turn  and you will survive. Let the turn go for a few seconds and you will die.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 9/24/2007 3:57:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  echristley(at)nc.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  100ms update rate resolves to    10Hz. Is 60Hz a selling point when most 

people can resolve more than about    20Hz? Not saying that it's bad to 

update faster, just that it doesn't buy    you anything.

	


 





   See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

  

 Good Afternoon Echristley,  



 I know absolutely nothing about all of those numbers you are mentioning,  but 

 a faster update rate buys you a LOT when you are using the instrument for  

 flight control. 

  

 How do your numbers compare to the Garmin 396 and the Garmin 496  numbers?

  

 While it is possible to use the flight instrument screen on a Garmin 196,  

 296 or 396 as a back up set of flight instruments, the 496 has a five times  

 faster update rate than does the 396 and it is a LOT easier to fly.  

  

 The faster the update rate, the faster you can notice a turn. Stop the turn  

 and you will survive. Let the turn go for a few seconds and you will die.

  

   

Bob, if you update fast enough, all you notice is fluid motion.  You 
	


know your TV is really a series of still frames.  At what point does the 

moving picture go from being the flickering stop-motion that marked the 

earliest years of the cinema, to the fluid life-like replica that is 

modern cinema.  It is right about 20 frames per second, 20Hz, for most 

people.  Some people can notice the flicker at that rate.  Push it to 

30Hz and no one can really tell.



So the advertisers say they can update the display at 60Hz, 60 times per 

second, and this makes them better than the other guys that only update 

at 20Hz.  If you're bothered by the flickering in your TV that makes the 

sports action jerky, I'd say the 60Hz is a selling point.  Most of us 

can get by with 20, though.



As a software engineer, the information does give some tantalizing clues 

to the TruTrak's architecture vs other systems.  An EFIS has to do 3 

things.  Collect some data, create a model of the world, and display a 

picture.  Designing the hardware for the system, you want to make $&(* 

sure you have enough processing power to handle all three things.   It 

seems that TruTrak chose to write some tight code that runs in a loop.  

Collect. Create.  Display. Collect. Create.  Display.  This would make 

for some clean, simple, linear code.  I'd choose to have a safety factor 

of 3 on the hardware, and 20Hz update rate is what's needed.  So, the 

60Hz result is about right.



Another way to set this up would be to maintain the model in memory.  

You run one loop that constantly collects data an updates the model.  

Another loop would create a picture from the model and display it.  It 

could possibly result in fewer hardware requirements, because you can 

throttle back the picture drawing code to only what's necessary...20Hz.  

Six of one.  Half dozen of the other.  I'm glad there's  companies 

approaching it from both directions, because in the end, we're the winners.

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

Does anyone know if the new EFIS will be integrated with any of their

autopilot options? It would make a nice combo package.



--

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

Check out Page 63 in the Sept. "Sport Aviation", Paragraph 3 of the ad - 

"This is also true when operating the optional built-in autopilot."  

Also www.trutrakap.com -



Already offered. 



M. Haught

longg(at)pjm.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Does anyone know if the new EFIS will be integrated with any of their

 autopilot options? It would make a nice combo package.



 -----

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: TruTrak EFIS SG

A nice combo package, yes, but if the EFIS has a problem, a completely 

separate autopilot will keep you upright while you figure out what to do 

next.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke



longg(at)pjm.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Does anyone know if the new EFIS will be integrated with any of their

autopilot options? It would make a nice combo package.

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