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Scooter
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 155
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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I hate to break up the party but I have a question about Yaks. What kind of paint have you guys used to paint your airplanes? What did you use on the fabric surfaces (the same stuff?). How many gallons? Thanks!
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cpayne(at)joimail.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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Scooter,
Yaks don't need paint...they ooze a protective mucus called "oil" from their upwind parts so that the downwind parts will be protected from corrosion, Siberian Black Flies, and Tundra Tics.
OTOH, I've been weighing the various merits of which Paint System to use on my CJ. Basically aircraft paint systems break down into a few categories for the finish coats: base coat/clear coat or single system. Each has it's own merits. paint stocks range from the urethanes to the acrylics. Some examples are Imron or Jet Glo; epoxy urethanes and Acryglo, a polyester urethane. Automotive paints fall into several levels of price/performance but anything you get from your local auto paint store is likely formulated for the refinish market, rather than starting from bare metal.
That being said, I've seen good results from using PPG acrylic-urethanes over self-etching primers on homebuilts, but heh, when we got Flight Suit experts all over this list, there ought to be some knowledgeable paint guys.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Craig Payne
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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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Craig, you forgot Isocyanides as a third and more esoteric selection. Don’t forget that the topcoat adhesion is dependent on compatibility with base primer formulation (choice). AKZO has some great (bullet proof) primer but few airframe painters stay with their topcoats. PPG is indeed a most popular topcoat choice.
Still on the table…. The weight and gallons to cover a Yak or CJ with proper coverage. With multi-color paint schemes, I am a fan of two-part (color then clear coat) topcoats for protection.
John Cox
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:00 PM
To: yak-list
Subject: Re: Painting a Yak
Scooter,
Yaks don't need paint...they ooze a protective mucus called "oil" from their upwind parts so that the downwind parts will be protected from corrosion, Siberian Black Flies, and Tundra Tics.
OTOH, I've been weighing the various merits of which Paint System to use on my CJ. Basically aircraft paint systems break down into a few categories for the finish coats: base coat/clear coat or single system. Each has it's own merits. paint stocks range from the urethanes to the acrylics. Some examples are Imron or Jet Glo; epoxy urethanes and Acryglo, a polyester urethane. Automotive paints fall into several levels of price/performance but anything you get from your local auto paint store is likely formulated for the refinish market, rather than starting from bare metal.
That being said, I've seen good results from using PPG acrylic-urethanes over self-etching primers on homebuilts, but heh, when we got Flight Suit experts all over this list, there ought to be some knowledgeable paint guys.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Craig Payne
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wlannon(at)cablerocket.co
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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Having painted a few aircraft over the years and sworn an oath that I will never do another one I can offer some advice FWIW.
Usual choice is a Canadian product called Endura. It is a single stage poly-urethane, relatively inexpensive, sprays and stands up very well.
Also used Sherwin Williams Sunfire (now called DayGlo) in both base/clear and single stage. Excellent results and easy(another relative term) to use. A little more expensive, maybe with the sexy new name a lot more expensive?? I'm sure most if not all of the major brands are good.
Whatever type you choose there are two major considerations;
1. Use fresh air breathing apparatus, you likely will be dealing with isocyanates.
2. Use either a special pre-mixed batch for the fabric which contains adequate flex agent to prevent future cracking (Endura supplies both primer and topcoat pre-mixed for fabric). Or mix your own with flex agent from the paint manufacturer. That was the case with Sherwin Williams for the top coat but I used Endura fabric primer.
Walt
[quote] ---
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Mike Bell
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Painting a Yak |
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For metal it doesn't much matter. Use what you are already familiar with, or what is easy to obtain locally. Two-part polyurethanes are all bullet-proof and shiny. Most shops settle on one or two systems and hate to use anything else, but they all work. If you are doing your own painting be aware they are very toxic. You need a fresh-air system, hood, etc.
For fabric you can use anything from rolled-on latex house paint to polyurethanes, but traditionally it's dope, some kind of enamel, or polytone which is sort of in-between. The party line from Poly Fiber (Stits) is that because fabric flexes so much no car paint will stick long-term, because they are all too hard. Flex-additives help, but they go away in weeks to years, the finish gets hard, then it cracks or separates. Their brand of polyurethane (Aerothane) is made from a more flexible base material and supposedly never gets brittle. Polytone for sure stays flexible. A dried-up can of it is like rubber. But polytone is hard to get very shiny, and it's a trick to get it to stick to metal. I know there is LOTS of disagreement about all of the above, and most shops I have spoken with have their own prefences for topcoats, usually not Stits. FWIW I have owned 15 different fabric planes and they all had some cracking somewhere, except 2 that had polytone. That's what I'm putting on my Yak-52 control surfaces. Spraying in my garage and not wanting to poison everyone is part of the issue there, otherwise I would try Aerothane. My hangar partner's 1929 Fairchild had enamel over Ceconite from the 1960's and not a crack anywhere when it was disassembled for restoration 30 years later, so sometimes enamel over fabric works fine.
It takes 11 gallons of topcoat for a J-3 Cub if that gives you some indication of how much paint goes on a plane.
www.poly-fiber.com is a good source of information.
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Mike Bell
Elk Grove, CA
avbell2(at)comcastdotnet |
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Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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Guys, I have several pieces of nose art that I just designed as a possibility for N621CJ. Do you advise I use decals or is there an actual paint on option that's better? -V
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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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Val,
Just an opinion here. If you do the vinyl, it can be easily removed and replaced if necessary and is very inexpensive by comparison. Painting nose art typically requires air brushing, which is quite expensive. If you have or plan to take a high quality digital photo of the nose art, it can be expanded to the size you want for the airplane without becoming granular.
FWIW
Dennis
[quote] ---
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Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: Painting a Yak |
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Thanks Dennis, I knew I could count on you. - Val
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