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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: FAST Formation Flight Safety |
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"To DENY any person, or group of pilots FORMATION TRAINING, simply because they will not wear a Flight Suit (you name the reason why not) says something very bad about that organization. VERY BAD. In my personal and very strong opinion anyway.
It defacto says: "We'd rather you go out and attempt formation flight on your own with no training what-so-ever, than to allow you to train with us without wearing a Flight Suit. "
In my some what fragmented memory as a FAST and RPA check pilot I don't remember anyone ever being refused training at an RPA training event. Lots of times we had T6/SNJ, T-34, or even new RPA members show up and they may or may not have had on a flight suit. They are NOT turned away. So your statement above is convoluted and incorrect in its characterization of the whole association.
In truth at most check pilot meetings (both RPA and FAST) to wear or not wear a flight suit is seldom, if ever, discussed. The far more important issues are is what is happening in the formations. Are the standards good enough, need they be changed, and what changes are good or no good? Should certain areas be focused on more or less? Etc. We just recently spent a lot of discussion time (somewhat "passionate" at times) on manual changes for timed interval takeoffs and landings. This all BEFORE the OSH and California accidents.
To say or infer that RPA worries more about uniforms than safety of flight, is categorically wrong and it is not fair to the guys who have either more time, more experience, and back ground in the subject than you. And this in no way infer a judgement on your skills BTW.
If you ever went to a RPA airshow event, you may have noticed, that most (admittedly not all) put on their flight suit just before interring their planes and take off their flight suits as soon as leaving their planes. If RPA was all that "dictatorial" and image conscious, they would be required at all times - no?
RPA Briefing at OSH 2007. How many flight suits do you see?
The comradery I see at RPA airshows/events is not on what one is wearing but the fun and mutual respect these folks have for each other.
Since the dawn of human evolution, we have evolved because as a species we banded together. We killed off the mammoths as groups, we defeated the Japs and Nazis as a group. In every group there must be a leader or leaders. And when there are leaders, there are those who don't like their leaders because their bear skin was tighter fitting or they didn't like the fact his dick might was bigger. Who knows. But without a leadership, be it chief or elected president, there is only anarchy. Is there a place for the anarchist? Yes. But only temporally. 
My question here is, why is your loin cloth so up tight over a mundane issue like wearing a flight suit? Are you doing it because you really believe the whole association is totally fucked up or you just don't like some one personally? A lot of people out side of RPA who have control (FAA) over the entire formation issue, don't think so. And the rest of FAST don't think so either. The new RPA manual is being used as a template (flight suits not included) for other signatories manuals.
Since both you and Brains, have said those were you last words - does that mean I win? I bet not.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
See what
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: FAST Formation Flight Safety |
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[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C82088.F8E70570[/img]
RPA Briefing at OSH 2007. How many flight suits do you see?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Is this like “Find Elmo”? If so, I see one! Can you find him?
:>))
Doc
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: FAST Formation Flight Safety |
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com Jim "Pappy" Goolsby said:
| Quote: | In my some what fragmented memory as a FAST and RPA check pilot I don't
remember anyone ever being refused training at an RPA training event.
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Lots of times we had T6/SNJ, T-34, or even new RPA members show up and
they may or may not have had on a flight suit. They are NOT turned
away. So your statement above is convoluted and incorrect in its
characterization of the whole association.
Mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil Mark "Bad Bullets" Bitterlich replies:
No Jim, my statement is not convoluted or incorrect, and my memory is
anything but fragmented. You need to go read your own organizations
rules and talk to your own organizations leaders. The RPA Vice
President took the rule right out of the book and presented it here, and
confirmed with me personally that this is what it said. So point that
shaking finger someplace else than in my face ok?
| Quote: | To say or infer that RPA worries more about uniforms than safety of
flight, is categorically wrong and it is not fair to the guys who have
|
either more time, more experience, and back ground in the subject than
you. And this in no way infer a judgement on your skills BTW.
Jim, I am glad that you have said this. It tells me that if I were
RIGHT about what I have been saying here, you would be just as upset as
I am. That's a good thing. So stand by for a shock.
Here is your RPA RULE, it is a direct quote and confirmed by your Vice
President. Read it and weep.
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this
policy with their Wingmen"
So, since I assume you are a Flight Lead, then you must:
1. Not read your own rules?
2. Disregard your own rules?
3. Only comply with the rules you think make sense?
Ok, I admit it... I am being a little too sarcastic here, but YOU were
the one pointing the finger and claiming everything I said was WRONG
Jim.
| Quote: | If you ever went to a RPA airshow event, you may have noticed, that
most (admittedly not all) put on their flight suit just before interring
|
their planes and take off their flight suits as soon as leaving their
planes. If RPA was all that "dictatorial" and image conscious, they
would be required at all times - no?
I am absolutely sure you are correct. Once again, let me point out that
I have no argument or debate about what the RPA mandates that it's
members wear or do not wear at RPA Events in front of the public. All I
am asking is that they drop the mandatory wear of Flight Suits for
students looking for Formation Training. Do you disagree with that? If
so why?
| Quote: | The comradery I see at RPA airshows/events is not on what one is
wearing but the fun and mutual respect these folks have for each other.
|
Great. I hope you continue to have fun.
| Quote: | Since the dawn of human evolution, we have evolved because as a
species we banded together. We killed off the mammoths as groups, we
|
defeated the Japs and Nazis as a group. In every group there must be a
leader or leaders. And when there are leaders, there are those who
don't like their leaders because their bear skin was tighter fitting or
they didn't like the fact his dick might was bigger. Who knows. But
without a leadership, be it chief or elected president, there is only
anarchy. Is there a place for the anarchist? Yes. But only
temporally.
Jim, we are talking about formation training for people that ask for it.
Not the President, Japs, Nazi's, or a guy with a 12 inch dick.
| Quote: | My question here is, why is your loin cloth so up tight over a mundane
issue like wearing a flight suit?
|
My question right back at you is why you insist on supporting a RPA rule
that you tell me is not followed anyway?
| Quote: | Are you doing it because you really believe the whole association is
totally fucked up or you just don't like some one personally?
|
I am doing it because as a pilot I think RPA has tremendous potential.
I also think that formation training is necessary and should be provided
and promoted where-ever possible, and that this training should take
precedence over what a person wears inside of his or her own aircraft.
| Quote: | A lot of people out side of RPA who have control (FAA) over the entire
formation issue, don't think so. And the rest of FAST don't think so
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either. The new RPA manual is being used as a template (flight suits
not included) for other signatories manuals.
I could care less.
| Quote: | Since both you and Brains, have said those were you last words - does
that mean I win? I bet not.
|
You're right.
Mark Bitterlich
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