 |
Matronics Email Lists Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co Guest
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
We just finished test flying, including the most recent flight at full aft CG and gross weight. I put the plane on scales to load it so I know it was right at the limit. It took 200 lbs in the baggage area, 200 in the rear seats, and 400 lbs of pilots to get to aft C.G. at gross. Considering that the normal baggage limit is 150#, I think you'd have to try pretty hard to overload the plane or load it out of C.G. Still worth checking though.
At aft C.G. and gross weight we did approach stalls, zero G manuvers to calibrate the AOA, slow flight, and cruise. Climb on a cool day from sea level was near 1800FPM. Handling was normal athough the stalls seemed to break more abrubtly than when it was light (at 2200 lbs it didn't really break at all, just "mushed"). Heavy, it was still a very easy recovery just by adding power.
This was the first cruise measurement we've made since installing the gear fairings. We saw the standard 15 kt increase. At 5000', gross weight, 24" and 2500 RPM we saw 177KTAS. We're RV grinning from ear to ear!
With the fairings installed we're at 1588 lbs. empty. Still no paint or interior. I told the interior shop his budget was 8 pounds. He just laughed...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
[quote][b]
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
Awesome, glad to see someone posting numbers! Have you calibrated
out the airspeed by doing the 3-way or 4-way GPS runs yet?
How was the static port error if any, if you have?
What RPM are you getting 1800FPM with for climb on a cool day
at sea level. Climbing at 2650 should bring close to 22-2300 if
you're flying alone, and full-up I can usually manage 15-1600fpm.
But, by reducing the RPM down to what some people climb at
(2500), it does reduce climb probably to about where you're
at, so I'm just wondering what the situation was around that
climb rate.
Makes it really worth adding the fairings, doesn't it!?!
Sounds like at full MP and the right load balances you'll
have no problem getting right up to Van's posted numbers!
I find aircraft loading, and many factors seem to affect
the absolute top end from flight to flight.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: | We just finished test flying, including the most recent flight at full
aft CG and gross weight. I put the plane on scales to load it so I know
it was right at the limit. It took 200 lbs in the baggage area, 200 in
the rear seats, and 400 lbs of pilots to get to aft C.G. at gross.
Considering that the normal baggage limit is 150#, I think you'd have to
try pretty hard to overload the plane or load it out of C.G. Still
worth checking though.
At aft C.G. and gross weight we did approach stalls, zero G manuvers to
calibrate the AOA, slow flight, and cruise. Climb on a cool
day from sea level was near 1800FPM. Handling was normal athough the
stalls seemed to break more abrubtly than when it was light (at 2200 lbs
it didn't really break at all, just "mushed"). Heavy, it was still a
very easy recovery just by adding power.
This was the first cruise measurement we've made since installing the
gear fairings. We saw the standard 15 kt increase. At 5000', gross
weight, 24" and 2500 RPM we saw 177KTAS. We're RV grinning from ear to ear!
With the fairings installed we're at 1588 lbs. empty. Still no paint or
interior. I told the interior shop his budget was 8 pounds. He just
laughed...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
|
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 580
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Test Flight Results |
|
|
Dave,
Are you using a 2700 lb gross weight?
Bob
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com Guest
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
Good report, Dave.
I might print that one off and hang it inside the shop. That'll keep me focused on building.
From: Dave Saylor [mailto:Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:50 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Test Flight Results
We just finished test flying, including the most recent flight at full aft CG and gross weight. I put the plane on scales to load it so I know it was right at the limit. It took 200 lbs in the baggage area, 200 in the rear seats, and 400 lbs of pilots to get to aft C.G. at gross. Considering that the normal baggage limit is 150#, I think you'd have to try pretty hard to overload the plane or load it out of C.G. Still worth checking though.
At aft C.G. and gross weight we did approach stalls, zero G manuvers to calibrate the AOA, slow flight, and cruise. Climb on a cool day from sea level was near 1800FPM. Handling was normal athough the stalls seemed to break more abrubtly than when it was light (at 2200 lbs it didn't really break at all, just "mushed"). Heavy, it was still a very easy recovery just by adding power.
This was the first cruise measurement we've made since installing the gear fairings. We saw the standard 15 kt increase. At 5000', gross weight, 24" and 2500 RPM we saw 177KTAS. We're RV grinning from ear to ear!
With the fairings installed we're at 1588 lbs. empty. Still no paint or interior. I told the interior shop his budget was 8 pounds. He just laughed...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co Guest
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
Yep, 2700.
Do Not Archive
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co Guest
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
Yep, I checked the calibration of the indicator with GPS. I compensated
for wind by using the wind vector indicator on the EFIS and flying into,
away from, and perpendicular to the wind, and checking IAS against GS. I
was pretty surprised to see that my first try at static ports was accurate
enough to call 'em good. I used a gigantic pop rivet, then threaded a brass
screw into the stem and drilled a #60 hole through the screw. Sounds
complicated but it only took about 10 minutes.
RPM is 2700 or 2720 depending on where the governor settles down. I was
pretty happy with 1800 FPM at gross. More like you're seeing when it's
light.
We're driving 300 miles for Thanksgiving this year because the plane will be
in paint but I'm really looking forward to some extended cruising to sort
out more power settings, loading, etc.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
do not archive
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
Awesome, then them's is good numbers you got there. 1800fpm is
pretty good for full gross. I've never flown out of sea level
before, especially on a cool day, so I don't know exactly what I'd
have, but, it sounds like you're definitely going to be on the
well performing side of the pile. You should be pretty happy with
your cruise speeds, that's for sure.
Thanks for doing the good work getting accurate numbers to report.
I'm sure the pop-rivet static port style should give less error
than some of the other options, as it sticks out further.
I think you probably solved one of the down sides though by adding
the screw...gives more for the hose/tubing to grip to than just a
pop rivet alone. Good work all the way around.
When you get some purdy pictures, send 'em on!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: |
Yep, I checked the calibration of the indicator with GPS. I compensated
for wind by using the wind vector indicator on the EFIS and flying into,
away from, and perpendicular to the wind, and checking IAS against GS. I
was pretty surprised to see that my first try at static ports was accurate
enough to call 'em good. I used a gigantic pop rivet, then threaded a brass
screw into the stem and drilled a #60 hole through the screw. Sounds
complicated but it only took about 10 minutes.
RPM is 2700 or 2720 depending on where the governor settles down. I was
pretty happy with 1800 FPM at gross. More like you're seeing when it's
light.
We're driving 300 miles for Thanksgiving this year because the plane will be
in paint but I'm really looking forward to some extended cruising to sort
out more power settings, loading, etc.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
do not archive
|
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co Guest
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
At Nellis, the most asked question on Saturday and Sunday was, "Does this plane really cruise at 170 knots like the ad says?"
I probably got this question about 6 times and I'm sure everyone else wondered the same.
I told them it does and it will do more depending on how much fuel you want to burn. It is funny that people don't believe it.
Now at gross weight and cruising at 10,500 - 12,500 ft. I get about 160 - 162 knots, but if I went lower and pushed my fuel burn up to 14-15 gph, no problem.
177 knots is awesome. I will have to load the plane up someday and scoot across the ground at 800 agl (5000 ft.) and see what type of speed I can get.
Here are a couple more shots just to prove that this plane will cruise at 170 knots. Here I am running ROP at 12.5 gph at 11,500. The TAS is 171 knots.
I should tell people the ad lies, it is actually faster than that.
As long as I'm attaching photos here is one more. I had the most amazing flight about 3 weeks ago. There was a thin cloud layer at 11,000 ft., the sun was setting and I was flying towards the tallest peak along the Wasatch Front. Of course I did not have my camera, but I did have my iPhone with me so at least I got a shot. You can imagine what a good camera would have taken. I was alone and was wishing at least my wife was with me. To this day, it was one of the best flights ever. The picture is looking down what is called Provo Canyon. One flight like that after all the work you put into your RV-10 makes it worth it. I feel like I have been paid back and should start again.
Every flight you take you feel like you won't be able to top the beauty of a certain sunrise, sunset, cloud layer, ect... but then it will.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
---
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
46.52 KB |
Viewed: |
309 Time(s) |

|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
81.39 KB |
Viewed: |
272 Time(s) |

|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
36.38 KB |
Viewed: |
282 Time(s) |

|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co Guest
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
177 seems kind of high to me, but that's what EFIS said and I'm as sure as 45 hours of experience can make me that it's right. I wonder if having a lot of nose down trim was a factor. I've heard that being tail heavy is more efficient because it unloads the main wing, but then again the lift (and induced drag) has to come from somewhere, even if it's from the tail.
I dunno. I'm anxious to get out there and get some more data, and see some cool stuff like those mountains, Scott.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:33 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Test Flight Results
At Nellis, the most asked question on Saturday and Sunday was, "Does this plane really cruise at 170 knots like the ad says?"
I probably got this question about 6 times and I'm sure everyone else wondered the same.
I told them it does and it will do more depending on how much fuel you want to burn. It is funny that people don't believe it.
Now at gross weight and cruising at 10,500 - 12,500 ft. I get about 160 - 162 knots, but if I went lower and pushed my fuel burn up to 14-15 gph, no problem.
177 knots is awesome. I will have to load the plane up someday and scoot across the ground at 800 agl (5000 ft.) and see what type of speed I can get.
Here are a couple more shots just to prove that this plane will cruise at 170 knots. Here I am running ROP at 12.5 gph at 11,500. The TAS is 171 knots.
I should tell people the ad lies, it is actually faster than that.
As long as I'm attaching photos here is one more. I had the most amazing flight about 3 weeks ago. There was a thin cloud layer at 11,000 ft., the sun was setting and I was flying towards the tallest peak along the Wasatch Front. Of course I did not have my camera, but I did have my iPhone with me so at least I got a shot. You can imagine what a good camera would have taken. I was alone and was wishing at least my wife was with me. To this day, it was one of the best flights ever. The picture is looking down what is called Provo Canyon. One flight like that after all the work you put into your RV-10 makes it worth it. I feel like I have been paid back and should start again.
Every flight you take you feel like you won't be able to top the beauty of a certain sunrise, sunset, cloud layer, ect... but then it will.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:22:11 PM
Subject: Re: Test Flight Results
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>
Awesome, then them's is good numbers you got there. 1800fpm is
pretty good for full gross. I've never flown out of sea level
before, especially on a cool day, so I don't know exactly what I'd
have, but, it sounds like you're definitely going to be on the
well performing side of the pile. You should be pretty happy with
your cruise speeds, that's for sure.
Thanks for doing the good work getting accurate numbers to report.
I'm sure the pop-rivet static port style should give less error
than some of the other options, as it sticks out further.
I think you probably solved one of the down sides though by adding
the screw...gives more for the hose/tubing to grip to than just a
pop rivet alone. Good work all the way around.
When you get some purdy pictures, send 'em on!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)aircraftersllc.com (Dave(at)aircraftersllc.com)>
Yep, I checked the calibration of the indicator with GPS. I compensated
for wind by using the wind vector indicator on the EFIS and flying into,
away from, and perpendicular to the wind, and checking IAS against GS. I
was pretty surprised to see that my first try at static ports was accurate
enough to call 'em good. I used a gigantic pop rivet, then threaded a brass
screw into the stem and drilled a #60 hole through the screw. Sounds
complicated but it only took about 10 minutes.
RPM is 2700 or 2720 depending on where the governor settles down. I was
pretty happy with 1800 FPM at gross. More like you're seeing when it's
light.
We're driving 300 miles for Thanksgiving this year because the plane will be
in paint but I'm really looking forward to some extended cruising to
|
[quote][b]
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
|
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: Test Flight Results |
|
|
I think you'll find that adding some weight aft will add to your speeds.
Also, getting the magic 183kts is kind of a mystery, but it's doable.
It will depend on lots of factors like altitude, weather, and everything
else. I know, without a doubt, that I've seen 183 and even 185kts TAS
flat out before. The problem is, that was in the winter, at maybe
2500', with higher RPM's and plenty of fuel being poured on....maybe
24gph or so.
Realistically, you will probably find if you're a medium altitude flyer,
you can probably manage 170-172 kts TAS in cruise, at maybe 14gph.
Notice that Scott quoted in the 160's, ROP but with lesser fuel flows
than that, but, Scott's altitudes were higher than some of the legs
I've done too. I've had legs at 14k where I was in the mid 150's LOP
and that's all I've managed. I can USUALLY, if I cruise 7000-10,000',
count on a minimum of 155kts LOP, and more likely 160-165kts LOP, and
over 170kts ROP. But if I get too high, I'll maybe drop down in
the 155-160kt range. On the good side, on legs of 13K' or so, I'll
usually get LOP and be down in the 8.5gph range (at) 155kts TAS.
So really, all I'm saying is, yeah, the -10 will make Van's numbers
no problem. But, you're probably not going to ever cruise at any of
the top speeds, and there are so many variables that it's going to
take more than a couple long X/C flights for you to find some of the
various combinations that work well. You may find that you do
one thing up high, one thing in the middle, and a totally different
thing down low.
For me, the biggest thrill has been the benefits of running LOP with
a good engine monitor. It's amazing, but I can even cruise around
at 125kts indicated while at 3000' or so, and get the fuel flow down
to about 7gph....so it'll do better than a cessna for your local
sightseeing too if you want it to.
Oh, and last week, when Scott took my kids and had more in the
back, he seemed significantly faster than me and my wife alone in
our plane. But at OSH, he only seemed about 2-3kts faster. So I'm
guessing loading played a factor in that.
One thing I'd love to hear from you after you get some cruising done
is what your favorite RPM is. So far I've heard from at least
2 RV-10 builders, with 2 different props, who both like the feel
of 2360rpm. Not 2350, not 2370...it's very interesting to me that
some of us can find some of these same sweet spots, and I'm wondering
if there are more who find that and we don't even know.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: | 177 seems kind of high to me, but that's what EFIS said and I'm as sure
as 45 hours of experience can make me that it's right. I wonder if
having a lot of nose down trim was a factor. I've heard that being tail
heavy is more efficient because it unloads the main wing, but then again
the lift (and induced drag) has to come from somewhere, even if it's
from the tail.
I dunno. I'm anxious to get out there and get some more data, and see
some cool stuff like those mountains, Scott.
Dave Saylor
|
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|