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On-board battery charge controller

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allanwright(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

Recently, a friend and I bought an RV4, which had been built in 2001 but 

not flown much since. Almost immediately, we had to replace the battery 

(Gill G25S). I've been looking into battery chargers and desulfators to 

try to prolong the life of our new battery. I also read the excellent 

chapter on batteries in the AeroElectric Connection.



Based on my reading and online research, it seems like we can buy a 

smart charger with a desulfator for somewhere between $80 and $160, 

which should do a pretty good job of maintaining the battery when it is 

on the ground. However, since our alternator voltage is on the high side 

(14.8 to 15.0 volts), the battery will be overcharged every time we fly 

the airplane, particularly when it is hot outside which is a lot of the 

time in California. Our voltage regulator is not adjustable, and I 

really don't want to replace it.



Since I have quite a bit of experience with electronic design (digital 

and analog but not power circuits) I thought I might try to design a 

circuit that would control the charging of the battery both in-flight 

and on the ground. Conceptually, it would work like this:

- the battery would still connect to the main bus through the master 

relay, but with a series diode so that current could only flow from the 

battery to the bus.

- my circuit would also connect between the battery and the main bus, 

and would control the charge current flowing into the battery when the 

engine is running

- initially, it would apply the full bus voltage to the battery, and 

monitor the charging current as well as the battery temperature

- when the current drops below an adjustable limit such as 0.5 amps, it 

would lower the voltage to the temperature-compensated float voltage 

recommended by the battery manufacturer

- on the ground, it could be connected to an external power supply to 

keep the battery charged

- optionally, an on-board desulfator such as the one from Battery Minder 

could be added to the system, which would function both in-flight as 

well as on the ground

- optionally, an LCD display could be added which would show the battery 

voltage, bus voltage, charge current and battery temperature.



If it works, I could publish the circuit and maybe provide a PCB so that 

others could build it if they wanted to.



I wonder if anyone has any comments on this idea? If it has been done 

before, I don't want to re-invent the wheel.



Thanks.

Allan

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schaefer(at)rts-services.
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

It seems it would be a lot simpler to replace the Voltage regulator with one

that works. Get a B&C with temp compensation.



Then just put the relatively inexpensive battery tender on when you are in

the hanger. 



Batteries really like to get brought back to nominal charge with a good

supply of current. Your circuit would need to control a wide range of

currents (large for recharging [Constant Current, Floating Voltage], low

[Constant Voltage, Variable Current] for maintenance). A alternator with a

good voltage regulator, will handle battery charging just fine!



Another negative of your approach is you take the battery out of the system

as a device to overcome transients of over voltage. Now your main bus needs

to handle ALL of the transients on the buss. A good battery is very good at

absorbing transients that might otherwise eat up some of your electronics. 



--

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rjquillin

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: KSEE

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

At 14:37 12/1/2007, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  It seems it would be a lot simpler to replace the Voltage regulator with one

 that works. Get a B&C with temp compensation. 	


 Is anyone aware of a similar product for certified aircraft?



 Ron Q.

     [quote][b]

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

Good Evening Ron,

  

 I have had excellent results with products purchased from Zeftronics.  They also seem to have very helpful customer service personnel.

  

 B&C does have some products for a certified aircraft. I have one of  their standby alternator systems that is certified on my V35B Bonanza.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503   

  In a message dated 12/1/2007 8:41:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,  rjquillin(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  At 14:37    12/1/2007, you wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  It seems it would be a lot      simpler to replace the Voltage regulator with one

that works. Get a      B&C with temp compensation. 	


Is anyone aware of a    similar product for certified aircraft?



Ron  Q.

	






hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

  [quote][b]

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handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

Ron - 

 

 I have had excellent service with a Zeftronics Voltage regulator on my 125 HP Pacer.  The first two years I owned the airplane, I was having nothing but trouble with the voltage regulator - got two bad ones in a row, if you can believe that.  Found Zeftronics on line, and they didn't have the Pacer on their certification, but had the 0290 Lyc certified in another airplane, so they applied and got it certified.  I put in on my Pacer and have had absolutely NO trouble since that date, and it's now been 10 or 11 years.  Great customer service and great service from the unit.  

 

 M. Haught 

 

 BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com) wrote: [quote]            Good Evening Ron,

    

   I have had excellent results with products purchased from Zeftronics. They also seem to have very helpful customer service personnel.

    

   B&C does have some products for a certified aircraft. I have one of their standby alternator systems that is certified on my V35B Bonanza.

    

   Happy Skies,

   

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8503    

      In a message dated 12/1/2007 8:41:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, rjquillin(at)gmail.com (rjquillin(at)gmail.com) writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  At 14:37 12/1/2007, you wrote:

      	  Quote: 	
		  It seems it would be a lot simpler to replace the Voltage regulator with one

 that works. Get a B&C with temp compensation. 	
     

 Is anyone aware of a similar product for certified aircraft?

     

 Ron Q.

     	
   

   

   

   

   

      hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

    	  Quote: 	
		  



 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
 [b]

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allanwright(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

Thanks for your comments.



The problem with the voltage regulator is not just the lack of 

temperature compensation. It's that the regulator can't tell whether it 

is bulk charging or float charging the battery, which require different 

voltages. Typically, the regulator is set to a voltage that is good for 

recharging but too high for float charging. Since our airplane usually 

starts immediately, the actual time required to recharge the battery is 

pretty minimal.



I believe that the Battery Tender product is not recommended for Gill 

batteries, it has been known to boil off the electrolyte. There is a 

warning on the Aircraft Spruce website not to use them for these batteries.



You make a good point about losing the battery's ability to absorb 

transients.



Allan

[quote] 



 It seems it would be a lot simpler to replace the Voltage regulator with one

 that works. Get a B&C with temp compensation.



 Then just put the relatively inexpensive battery tender on when you are in

 the hanger. 



 Batteries really like to get brought back to nominal charge with a good

 supply of current. Your circuit would need to control a wide range of

 currents (large for recharging [Constant Current, Floating Voltage], low

 [Constant Voltage, Variable Current] for maintenance). A alternator with a

 good voltage regulator, will handle battery charging just fine!



 Another negative of your approach is you take the battery out of the system

 as a device to overcome transients of over voltage. Now your main bus needs

 to handle ALL of the transients on the buss. A good battery is very good at

 absorbing transients that might otherwise eat up some of your electronics. 



 --

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rjquillin

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: KSEE

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

At 08:23 12/2/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I believe that the Battery Tender product is not recommended for 

Gill batteries, it has been known to boil off the electrolyte. There 

is a warning on the Aircraft Spruce website not to use them for 

these batteries.


	


The BatteryMINDer folks discontinued selling and no longer recommend 

their non-temperature compensated  unit for aviation AGM usage, and 

now sell one that is temperature compensated.



http://www.thebatteryminder.com/12vaircraftbatteryminder-p-75.html



I spoke to them a few months ago, and for owners of the older unit, 

the new compensated unit may be purchased at 50% off retail.



Ron Q.

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simon(at)synchronousdesig
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:13 am Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

Ron,



This is a pretty good unit.  Battery Minder sells the 12248-AA-S1 for

$159.95, and Battery Mart sells it for $139.95.  Go figure (literally).

Here's their link:



     http://www.batterymart.com/c-batteryminder-battery-chargers.html



Simon

Copyright C 2007

--

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klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: On-board battery charge controller

I would suggest that the difference in battery life between a 

sophisticated charger and a cheap automotive regulator is pretty much 

negligible for most of us that fly less than 100 hours per year. 

Certainly I'd like a bit less than the 15 volts mentioned. Yes I like 

the minimal temperature compensation that most automotive regulators 

have. Even with an RG battery I believe that temperature compensation is 

more important than fancy charging profiles for most of us. Different 

story for marine batteries and standby batteries. My recommendation is 

fly it at least every two weeks and charge it if left more than a month 

or two or just float it to minimize sulphation.  But choose the simplest 

and most reliable regulator that is available for reasonable money to 

get the least cost of ownership. An extra year of battery life is going 

to seem very unimportant if a one of a kind regulator dies far from home...

Ken



Allan Wright wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <allanwright(at)comcast.net>



 Thanks for your comments.



 The problem with the voltage regulator is not just the lack of 

 temperature compensation. It's that the regulator can't tell whether 

 it is bulk charging or float charging the battery, which require 

 different voltages. Typically, the regulator is set to a voltage that 

 is good for recharging but too high for float charging. Since our 

 airplane usually starts immediately, the actual time required to 

 recharge the battery is pretty minimal.



 I believe that the Battery Tender product is not recommended for Gill 

 batteries, it has been known to boil off the electrolyte. There is a 

 warning on the Aircraft Spruce website not to use them for these 

 batteries.



 You make a good point about losing the battery's ability to absorb 

 transients.



 Allan

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