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GreasySideUp
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Distance restrictions in the Yak? |
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I keep reading posts regarding changing limits on where we can fly these birds but I am unclear.
Can I not take off and fly where ever I want? Could I fly to the Bahamas? Is there a cross country limit? Is a 350nm XC legal? A 1000 nm?
I hope I am misreading all these posts, I'm not sure what the original rule was or how it is changing.
Thanks
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: Distance restrictions in the Yak? |
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Greasy,
The original limit was for the YAK 50, 52 and CJ. It was for 350 nm for
proficiency training, maintenance, or to fly to an air show. That was stated
in the Operating Limits that you received at the time of certification of
your aircraft or when you transferred ownership (you took). These were
issued by the FSDO or their appointed representatives (the DAR). Each year
you had to send a "Program Letter" to the FSDO outlining your planned
training itinerary for the upcoming year. On 11 Sept 2007, the FAA issued a
"Deviation from Order 8130.2" that originally required the Program Letter.
That is no longer required. You now have to request that requirement be
removed from your Operating Limitations form though.
With the removal of the limitations restricting you to 350 nm, you can go
anywhere you want in the US except Class B airspace unless directed by the
controllers. As for going to the Bahamas, I think you are restricted from
taking an experimental aircraft out of the country by the current Operating
Limits. AT least mine says I cannot take it to a foreign country.
Hope this helps. Some others on the list have more gouge on this than I.
Changing the letter does not much matter for me. I do not have the time I
can take away from my practice to go on 1000 nm XC's in an aircraft with 250
nm legs. Just takes too much time to get there and back.
Doc
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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: Distance restrictions in the Yak? |
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If the aircraft has an Experimental - Exhibition airworthiness certificate,
there are Operating Limitations issued by the FAA that must be carried in
the aircraft at all times. The Operating Limitations, which are considered
part of the Special Airworthiness Certificate, spell out where and how the
aircraft can be operated. Yak 52's and CJ6's fall into this
category. With regards to your questions,
"Can I not take off and fly where ever I want?"
It depends on two things:
1-If the OL's were issued pre-1993 or post 9/19/2007 or 2- The wording in
the current operating limitions. If the OL's state 300 NM or 600 NM
proficiency area, that is your limitation as far as taking off and landing
anywhere you want, with the exception of Class B airports. You can have
the present OL's changed to remove the 300 or 600 NM proficiency area in
accordance with the letter issued by the FAA on 9/19/2007. See the RPA
website for instructions on how to proceed.
"Could I fly to the Bahamas?"
No. Read Section D on the back of the
Airworthiness Certificate. "....No person may operate the aircraft described
on the reverse side: (1) except in accordance with the applicable CFR and in
accordance with conditions and limitations which may be prescribed by the
Administrator as part of this
certificate; (2) over any foreign country without the special permission of
that country.
"... Also read FAR 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: "....
(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of this
section-
(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless it
temporarily bears marks in accordance with §§45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33;
(2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that operation; or
(3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 133, 135, or 137 of this
chapter.
(d) If, due to the configuration of an aircraft, it is impossible for a
person to mark it in accordance with §§45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33, he may
apply to the Administrator for a different marking procedure.
45.29 SIZE OF MARKS
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or
DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and
registration marks at least 12 inches high.
"Is there a cross country limit? Is a 350nm XC legal? A 1000 nm?" See
the answer above to "Can I take off and fly where I want?"
You should review the present Operating Limitations for the
Experimental-Exhibition aircraft. If there are none, then refer to FAA
Order 8130.2F CHG 3 and the FAA Memorandum-Removal of Proficiency Area.
Merry Christmas,
Dennis
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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: Distance restrictions in the Yak? |
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On Dec 10, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:
| Quote: |
<viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>
As for going to the Bahamas, I think you are restricted from
taking an experimental aircraft out of the country by the current
Operating
Limits. AT least mine says I cannot take it to a foreign country.
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Normally the limitation on operations in foreign airspace has to do
with the regulations of the country whose airspace you are
transiting. Most other countries do not recognize the operation of an
aircraft with an FAA-issued experimental airworthiness certificate
and require special dispensation. Usually this come in the form of a
letter of authorization from the aeronautical authority of that
country. This means that, if you want to fly to the Bahamas, you must
first get a letter of authorization from the Bahamian government to
fly an experimental aircraft in their airspace. This true for ALL
aircraft with an experimental AC including amateur-built.
So, even though we are pretty much free to fly anywhere we want to in
the US, that does *NOT* extend to foreign airspace. I had to deal
with this when flying in the Caribbean. Taking an aircraft with an
experimental AC down through the Bahamas and Caribbean is *painful*
as you have to get a letter of authorization from EVERY country whose
airspace you are flying through.
OTOH, you can just pick up and go, hoping that no one will notice.
They probably won't ... until you reenter US soil in Puerto Rico or
the USVI (or back in FL if you are just doing a quick hop over to
Bimini for lunch). At that point some butt-head in customs will
probably give you a hard time. Better to just jump through all the
hoops, painful though it may be.
If you need to fly in foreign airspace a lot you might want to find
out if you can register your aircraft in a country that operates the
Yak-52 under a normal airworthiness certificate. In that case the
problems with flying through foreign airspace go away (assuming
reciprocity). That might then have another effect on operating the
aircraft in the US and require you to get a pilots license from the
country that issues the AC and reg for your aircraft.
Speaking of customs butt-heads, I had one customs inspector get all
excited to tell me how he had recently confiscated someone's airplane
because they had made an unauthorized trip to Cuba. Seems the pilot
had made a completely legal trip to the Bahamas and then on to Cuba
but since he had not applied for special dispensation, his airplane
was confiscated when he returned. No due-process, no legal challenge.
Do not pass go. Do not collect your airplane. When dealing with the
US government over international flight BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID!!!!
International operations are *SO* much fun!
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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