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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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Just made my first skiplane (Kitfox IV/Jabiru 2200 w/skis) flight of
the season. Eight to ten inches of snow on the field, but my hangar
neighbor had cleared out the area in front of mine, so I got it out
and turned and hangar doors closed before startup. (I learned my
lesson from last year's mistake of leaving them open and finding snow
all over everything upon return.) A couple of 2 foot drifts were
handled nicely...up and over...and the taxi to the far end of the
1700-foot field was with about 1500-2200 rpm to keep it moving. Made
the mag check while taxiing, turned just fine and started the run. It
was slow going at first, then the skis climbed up a bit on top of
snow, speed picked up and off I went. Flew to a field nearby(3NP),
landed, taxied a bit, shut down, had coffee, fired up and left
without incident. There were drifts at Napoleon (3NP) too, but the
'fox handled 'em with ease, and I got off there too, but carrying a
bunch of snow up with me, on the skis....most blew off later. Landed
at home field by holding off on touchdown until close to hangar area,
then dropped her in...didn't want to have to taxi too far. Would have
flown more but ceiling was low, and didn't want to chance flying to
JXN for fuel and run into less-than-VFR.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
do not archive
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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Hi Lynn, I love the skis also, Just be careful of slush if you land on the frozen lakes. My new prop should be here today. Do you pull a drag up and down the field to pack the snow? I've been doing that for about 5 years on my strip and I think I have finally come up with a drag that really works. If you want, I could describe it and post a picture. Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Mn
| Quote: | From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
Subject: Skiplane flight...off topic
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:44:29 -0500
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Just made my first skiplane (Kitfox IV/Jabiru 2200 w/skis) flight of
the season. Eight to ten inches of snow on the field, but my hangar
neighbor had cleared out the area in front of mine, so I got it out
and turned and hangar doors closed before startup. (I learned my
lesson from last year's mistake of leaving them open and finding snow
all over everything upon return.) A couple of 2 foot drifts were
handled nicely...up and over...and the taxi to the far end of the
1700-foot field was with about 1500-2200 rpm to keep it moving. Made
the mag check while taxiing, turned just fine and started the run. It
was slow going at first, then the skis climbed up a bit on top of
snow, speed picked up and off I went. Flew to a field nearby(3NP),
landed, taxied a bit, shut down, had coffee, fired up and left
without incident. There were drifts at Napoleon (3NP) too, but the
'fox handled 'em with ease, and I got off there too, but carrying a
bunch of snow up with me, on the skis....most blew off later. Landed
at home field by holding off on touchdown until close to hangar area,
then dropped her in...didn't want to have to taxi too far. Would have
flown more but ceiling was low, and didn't want to chance flying to
JXN for fuel and run into less-than-VFR.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
do not archive
&=====================
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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I'm still waiting for the lakes to become safe enough. Today's
flights...I went up again for a fuel run...were interesting. After a
load of fuel (26 gals. total) was in, no problem with TO at paved
field, but getting off from subsequent (non-packed) grass field was
WAY longer than this mornings' flight...and landing there was a bear
too. As soon as the tail touched (first), the mains then touched, and
the tail came up pretty good. That stuff is really deep and wet.
Ambient was about 35 F at the time, and had been for a few hours. So
the snow became sluggish and hard to push through. As I said, taking
off took about half of the 2400-some foot runway...I just had to wait
until it bounced enough to stay up out of the snow for a little bit,
and it was flying. Landing at home field was again a breeze (wind of
11 mph, gusts of 19, 60 degrees off right side) and I could carry the
plane just off the runway until I wanted to let it down.
Yes, I'd like to see your drag, Jim. Might get others interested, too.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
do not archive
On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Lynn, I love the skis also, Just be careful of slush if you
land on the frozen lakes. My new prop should be here today. Do you
pull a drag up and down the field to pack the snow? I've been
doing that for about 5 years on my strip and I think I have finally
come up with a drag that really works. If you want, I could
describe it and post a picture. Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Mn
> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
> Subject: Skiplane flight...off topic
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:44:29 -0500
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Just made my first skiplane (Kitfox IV/Jabiru 2200 w/skis) flight of
> the season. Eight to ten inches of snow on the field, but my hangar
> neighbor had cleared out the area in front of mine, so I got it out
> and turned and hangar doors closed before startup. (I learned my
> lesson from last year's mistake of leaving them open and finding
snow
> all over everything upon return.) A couple of 2 foot drifts were
> handled nicely...up and over...and the taxi to the far end of the
> 1700-foot field was with about 1500-2200 rpm to keep it moving. Made
> the mag check while taxiing, turned just fine and started the
run. It
> was slow going at first, then the skis climbed up a bit on top of
> snow, speed picked up and off I went. Flew to a field nearby(3NP),
> landed, taxied a bit, shut down, had coffee, fired up and left
> without incident. There were drifts at Napoleon (3NP) too, but the
> 'fox handled 'em with ease, and I got off there too, but carrying a
> bunch of snow up with me, on the skis....most blew off later. Landed
> at home field by holding off on touchdown until close to hangar
area,
> then dropped her in...didn't want to have to taxi too far. Would
have
> flown more but ceiling was low, and didn't want to chance flying to
> JXN for fuel and run into less-than-VFR.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/440+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
>
&=====================
>
>
>
The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on
an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now!_-
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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| Quote: | From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]
...and landing there was a bear
too. As soon as the tail touched (first), the mains then touched, and
the tail came up pretty good.
|
I know what you mean, Lynn. A good thing we have wires that keep the fuselage to the end of the skis. You really can't tip over the nose but it sure feels scary when the tail comes up.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
<pre><b><font size color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
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LarryM
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Genoa, IL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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If you are not used to using flaps on take off - try it. Especially in the snow - it will jump out of the snow leaving behind all that drag. It's amazing difference. I used to run flaps up then pull them at the appropriate take off speed and the airplane would jump out of the snow. Once airborne, be sure you lower the nose if necessary to obtain climb speed. In my airplane with full flaps, it climbs nose down (or quite low) and still gains speed. I found setting the flaps b4 take off to be just as effective as pulling them, and you have the advantage of not taking your hand off the throttle to do it.
Have fun, Merry Christmas,
larry
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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I've only been taking off with half-flaps...10Degrees...but I'll try
full...20 degrees...and see if it works better. Since I was taught
with 1/2 flaps, I've just never tried full. I've taken off at no
flaps (forgot) and that worked too.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
On Dec 20, 2007, at 9:15 AM, LarryM wrote:
| Quote: |
If you are not used to using flaps on take off - try it.
Especially in the snow - it will jump out of the snow leaving
behind all that drag. It's amazing difference. I used to run
flaps up then pull them at the appropriate take off speed and the
airplane would jump out of the snow. Once airborne, be sure you
lower the nose if necessary to obtain climb speed. In my airplane
with full flaps, it climbs nose down (or quite low) and still gains
speed. I found setting the flaps b4 take off to be just as
effective as pulling them, and you have the advantage of not taking
your hand off the throttle to do it.
Have fun, Merry Christmas,
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153248#153248
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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Well here goes, hope it works, the drag is made out of 3 2"X6" X 16' pluss some shorter 2x4 and 2x6 for the ends. Long 2x6 are at a 45 degree angle to the ground. I have a 44o Artic Cat Jag that I use to pull it with. It has a pretty short track so it will spin out fairly easy. If the snow is deep, I pull fast and as it packs I can go slower. The slower the better it seems. If the strip was hard but rutted, I would add weight on top of the drag. In the pics, the drag is upside down. On the second pic you can see the 2 eyelets I tie the ropes to to tie it to the sled. I've used a sheet of tin and that works, but starts to build bumps after a while. Jim Chuk
| Quote: |
Yes, I'd like to see your drag, Jim. Might get others interested, too.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
do not archive
On Dec 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
> Hi Lynn, I love the skis also, Just be careful of slush if you
> land on the frozen lakes. My new prop should be here today. Do you
> pull a drag up and down the field to pack the snow? I've been
> doing that for about 5 years on my strip and I think I have finally
> come up with a drag that really works. If you want, I could
> describe it and post a picture. Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Mn
>
> > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
> > Subject: Skiplane flight...off topic
> > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:44:29 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> >
> > Just made my first skiplane (Kitfox IV/Jabiru 2200 w/skis) flight of
> > the season. Eight to ten inches of snow on the field, but my hangar
> > neighbor had cleared out the area in front of mine, so I got it out
> > and turned and hangar doors closed before startup. (I learned my
> > lesson from last year's mistake of leaving them open and finding
> snow
> > all over everything upon return.) A couple of 2 foot drifts were
> > handled nicely...up and over...and the taxi to the far end of the
> > 1700-foot field was with about 1500-2200 rpm to keep it moving. Made
> > the mag check while taxiing, turned just fine and started the
> run. It
> > was slow going at first, then the skis climbed up a bit on top of
> > snow, speed picked up and off I went. Flew to a field nearby(3NP),
> > landed, taxied a bit, shut down, had coffee, fired up and left
> > without incident. There were drifts at Napoleon (3NP) too, but the
> > 'fox handled 'em with ease, and I got off there too, but carrying a
> > bunch of snow up with me, on the skis....most blew off later. Landed
> > at home field by holding off on touchdown until close to hangar
> area,
> > then dropped her in...didn't want to have to taxi too far. Would
> have
> > flown more but ceiling was low, and didn't want to chance flying to
> > JXN for fuel and run into less-than-VFR.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > flying w/440+ hrs
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> &=====================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on
> an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now!_-
> ========== _-
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> =================================== _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ==============
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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I've found on my plane I can make faster stops using the flaps. I find I'm
up on step faster without using the flaps and once I'm on step the plane
will fly. So I now only use the flaps to land in near calm conditions.
I notice no one has mentioned when you land off field on skis make sure you
do a 360 turn on the ground and try to stop with your skis in you previous
track. Doing that helps keep the skis form sticking to the snow. Arctic
bush pilots used to cut boughs (if available and park the plane on a top of
them to keep the skis form freezing. There are also stories of guys using
quick drains to remove the warm oil from their engines and bringing it and
the battery id installed inside for the night. The next morning the pot of
oil would be warmed on the stove before being returned to the engine.
One other thing is to carry something close to an arctic emergency kit in
the plane. Items you might want to consider are "Bear Paws" to walk out of
a field to the closest road, a hand compass, something to keep you warm,
sugar bars, space blankets and of course a cell phone.
Just thinking out loud.
Noel
--
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: Skiplane flight...off topic |
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|
I used full, 20 degrees of flap today, and it worked just fine. Snow
conditions changed a bit overnight, and I had to take off from the
other end of field...read: no tracks... but I think I was up quicker
than with 1/2, 10 degrees flaps which is my usual. The plane just
kind of porpoises in the snow, and after 2 or 3 of these it lifts and
flies. The only problem now is remembering to raise the flaps that
extra notch....I got rid of one notch, as is my habit, then started
watching gauges and traffic (none), and forgot to raise the second
notch, and before I knew it I was at 4500 feet and going nowhere. : )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
On Dec 20, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
| Quote: |
I've only been taking off with half-flaps...10Degrees...but I'll
try full...20 degrees...and see if it works better. Since I was
taught with 1/2 flaps, I've just never tried full. I've taken off
at no flaps (forgot) and that worked too.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
On Dec 20, 2007, at 9:15 AM, LarryM wrote:
>
>
> If you are not used to using flaps on take off - try it.
> Especially in the snow - it will jump out of the snow leaving
> behind all that drag. It's amazing difference. I used to run
> flaps up then pull them at the appropriate take off speed and the
> airplane would jump out of the snow. Once airborne, be sure you
> lower the nose if necessary to obtain climb speed. In my airplane
> with full flaps, it climbs nose down (or quite low) and still
> gains speed. I found setting the flaps b4 take off to be just as
> effective as pulling them, and you have the advantage of not
> taking your hand off the throttle to do it.
>
> Have fun, Merry Christmas,
> larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153248#153248
>
>
|
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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