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jareds(at)verizon.net
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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Just wondering if any of you had any 582 winter flying tips.
Found a few "targets" out on the ice in the form of shacks / snow banks
/ Ice hockey poles and flags.
On a day below freezing i wondered if a 582 was succeptable to a siezure
or some other issue.
Any other tips for winter flying.
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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The only concerns I have had flying my Avid B and last winter the Mark IV was staying warm. No problems with the engine and cold weather. When you think about it, these engines are basicly detuned snomobile engines (plus some other changes) and they were made to run in the winter. I did put synthetic oil in the gearboxes so the engine would turn over and start easier. I've always liked the winter flying better than summer. Better lift, smoother air and lots of emergency fields with the frozen lakes if you need them. Around here, there are more trees than fields. On the heat issue, I bought an electric "hot seat" from J C Whitney that plugged into a cigaret lighter. I have a power point in the plane and I would plug into that. I would slip the hot seat into the back of my snomobile suit and usually had to run it on low or it would be to hot. $20.00 and worth it!! Never had trouble landing on lakes, till last week when some slush flew up and wrecked my prop. I did replace the 582 in my Mk IV last summer with a Jabiru and now have a much better heat setup and have not been useing the hotseat. Winter is not the time to wish you were flying----- go do it!! Just my 2 cents worth. Jim Chuk
[quote] Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:27:17 -0600
From: jareds(at)verizon.net
Subject: Any Winter Flying Tips
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds(at)verizon.net>
Just wondering if any of you had any 582 winter flying tips.
Found a few "targets" out on the ice in the form of shacks / snow banks
/ Ice hockey poles and flags.
On a day below freezing i wondered if a 582 was succeptable to a siezure
or some other issue.<================
i’m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real/?source=text_Cause_Effect' target='_new'>Learn more
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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| Quote: | jareds wrote;
On a day below freezing i wondered if a 582 was succeptable to a siezure
or some other issue.
Any other tips for winter |
Well, covered your rad with tape,shutters what ever to get the water temps to 160 to 180F . Adjustable would be best for days that the temps fluctuate. Long decents is where you are more likely to see cold seizures.
ie long decent to final temps down to 130: and you use full power for go around.
Just play with it till you get it right. Lot of places to land in the winter so you can always land to adjust your cooling.
One thing that I do prior to start up is to hand prop the prop at least 10 to 20 revolutions to loosen up the gear box oil . Good to change from 85W 140 to 85W 90 in winter for easier starts. Alot of times Hand propping a 582 will get it to fire better thna the electric start if battery not too strong. You need at leas 250 rpm to get the ducati ignition to fire.
Maybe even a pre heat of some sort would help you too.
I fly all winter in temps down to -25 C (-13F) with my heater set up cabin will be 50F on those days.
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_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
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kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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Take the wheel pants off. Snow can get packed into them and frees up the wheels. I have never heard of this in a Kitfox but it happens every year in a Cessna or 2.
I don’t thing the fox has better pants just smarter pilots that remove them in the winter
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:15 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Any Winter Flying Tips
The only concerns I have had flying my Avid B and last winter the Mark IV was staying warm. No problems with the engine and cold weather. When you think about it, these engines are basicly detuned snomobile engines (plus some other changes) and they were made to run in the winter. I did put synthetic oil in the gearboxes so the engine would turn over and start easier. I've always liked the winter flying better than summer. Better lift, smoother air and lots of emergency fields with the frozen lakes if you need them. Around here, there are more trees than fields. On the heat issue, I bought an electric "hot seat" from J C Whitney that plugged into a cigaret lighter. I have a power point in the plane and I would plug into that. I would slip the hot seat into the back of my snomobile suit and usually had to run it on low or it would be to hot. $20.00 and worth it!! Never had trouble landing on lakes, till last week when some slush flew up and wrecked my prop. I did replace the 582 in my Mk IV last summer with a Jabiru and now have a much better heat setup and have not been useing the hotseat. Winter is not the time to wish you were flying----- go do it!! Just my 2 cents worth. Jim Chuk
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:27:17 -0600
> From: jareds(at)verizon.net
> Subject: Any Winter Flying Tips
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds(at)verizon.net>
>
> Just wondering if any of you had any 582 winter flying tips.
> Found a few "targets" out on the ice in the form of shacks / snow banks
> / Ice hockey poles and flags.
> On a day below freezing i wondered if a 582 was succeptable to a siezure
> or some other issue.<================
>
>
>
i’m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real/?source=text_Cause_Effect' target='_new'>Learn more | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
012345678901234
[quote][b]
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LarryM
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Genoa, IL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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A few tips that I do:
- To help with the rad temps, I use "Thermostat 3853799 Bombardier Evinrude Johnson", in the fall and replace with the Rotax one in the spring. This thermostat is 160F and I see temps of 160 - 170 regardless of what I do with the throttle.
- Ensure the water temp is warm, I use about 130 before I rev over 3000. Ensure that the thermostat is open and water circulating for a few minutes before high power operations.
- I preheat the engine at all winter temps with an inline radiator heater. I got mine for $20. specifically for Ski Doo. ( any 1" hose one will do). I set it on a timer the night before I fly. Amazing what a difference an hour or 2 of heat will do. Starting water temp 80-100F. It starts and idles better at 20F after heating than in the summer. ( tells me I must have the summer idle too rich?)
- I wrap the engine with a sleeping bag then put the bag it the airplane when flying - just in the worse happens. You might want to think about a mini "survival kit". Warm clothes always, granola bar, matches, etc.
- Be doubly careful in the snow due to the lack of contrast or brightness. Many obstacles can be hidden. If in doubt - don't, the fun to risk factor won't be worth it.
Merry Christmas,
larry
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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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Larry sez:
| Quote: | - I wrap the engine with a sleeping bag then put the bag it the
airplane when flying - just in the worse happens. You might want to
think about a mini "survival kit". Warm clothes always, granola
bar, matches, etc.
|
Excellent advice, Larry. I watched a few episodes of "Survivorman"
this week and one was a simulated airplane crash in central Canada in
the winter. The host's mission, for those that haven't seen the
show, is to survive for one week in the wilderness with only the
handful of items he has with him.
He was absolutely miserable as he showed off how to start a fire,
build a make-shift shelter, and find stuff to eat. Having a few
items on-board, such as a sleeping bag and a little food and water,
would make such a situation infinitely more bearable.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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Good advice is to stay with the plane. (not always possible) It may have an
ELT and there may be fuel available. The battery may help to start a fire.
Tires and old oil will send up a good plume of black smoke. A plane is a
shape everyone will be looking for.
Melt snow for water. Never, make that, NEVER eat snow. It is only water
when its melted.
I remember a forester once asked me, in the event of getting lost in the
woods, would I go up the hill or down the hill in foggy weather. The
correct answer is go down the hill. Fog rises so helicopters can search
valleys long before hill tops.
One other thing white snow is a fantastic insulator. You can dig a hole
bough down and be as snug as a bug in a rug. Inuit are no fools. They have
been doing just that for thousands of years. Of course they choose when and
where to build an igloo and they don't build one every day. Snow piled over
the fuselage of your plane can also provide a good shelter make sure there
is a downwind vent and you will be surprised how warm you can get just using
a single candle. Of course you will also be surprised at just how fast a
candle will burn. Never the less candles are good to have in the plane any
time of year. They are reasonably inert, they are water proof. They can be
easily lit and they can also provide a good lubricant.
Noel
--
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Any Winter Flying Tips |
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Jareds,
Hope this helps
Here is a post i made last year
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=19987
Here is a Ski video of my Kitfox in 30" powder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0COIbiwm9g
over 20 videos of Kitfox flying here
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer&p=r
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: Ski flying
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, Season is here and A few are ski flyers and sounds like a few more
will becoming Ski fliers.
I wanted to say a good story from Noel a few days ago on the coffin that got
tossed from the Beaver. I got a good chuckle anyhow. He did bring on a
good point with the greenage put along the runway. One thing I have always
used on Ski planes is a good set of sunglasses or coloured lens that suit
you th best for giving good depth perception.
For anyone that has skied you will know how those cloudy days give the worst
depth perception from flat and low light conditions. And when on skis if
you cannot see the surface at all then you might not see ruts, drifts and
chunks of ice and snow on your intended take off or landing path. This can
spell disaster very quickly. So you have to be able to see better. Now add
some blowing snow and ground drifting and you will be even more blind.
I have found that yellow glasses work well you know the ones used for
shooting. I wear glasses and I have a pair of yellow safety glasses in the
plane . I also have my old Bolle IREX lens which are prescription ground.
There are mountaineering glasses and work excellent. I am sure most have
decent sunglasses now with IR and UV protection so next time you out in
the snow take a few pairs with you and see what works best. I even find
these help alot in the cars during snowy days adn whiteout conditions in the
daytimer as the light refracts off the blowing snow.
Also dress for winter in case you go down. zero F is not place to be
with just pants and sweat shirt. I carry a winter survival kit with me as
well as lots of waterproof matches, rope , hatchet, saw and a few small
tarps and extra gloves and hat.
Heater - Cabin heat . I have a scoop off the back of my radiator that
blows heated air about 160 F into the cabin on each side of the flap handle
through 2 1" holes -- Not enough for below 20F but helps a bit. I also
have a heat muff on the Muffler 13 " x 9 " that is piped into the cabin
via 2 1 1/2" Scat tubes. This makes me comfortable down to -10 F . at
this OAT the cabin will be about 40 to 45 F on a cloudy day and warmer on
sunny days. On a average winter day with temps at 20 F the cain will be
about 50 to 60 F on a cloudy day. Good heater is certainly worth the
effort.
Good battery is always helpful but also on my 582 good handproping skills
is VERY Helpful if you do not have a pull start. The ducati igntion needs
minimum of 250 RPM to get a spark generated and when temps get below 30 F I
find with that cold viscous gear oil it slows the starter enough that it
can be hard to start. I always turn over the prop about 10 ot 15 turns to
help loosen up oil a bit. But this is not always enough. But a few good
swings of the prop and it will usually fire right away. (YES those 3 to 1
gear gear boxes really spin that engine quick enought by hand. ) Your
enricher ( some call it a choke ) will work but a primer makes the easiest
starts. Nothing sucks more than when you are all set to go out a pristine
cold winter day and the engine will not fire.
Good walk around as usual but including your skis , bungees, crust cutter
cable and safety cables. I see many guys use a bungee from tip of ski amd
this can lead to failure of the bugge from snow abrasion so keep an eye on
them. Those 4 ot 5 foot skis put a good strain on your axles and gear as
well, so always keep a sharp eye for anything that does not look still
"aligned" on those big feet of yours. Surely most of you know but always
look for frost and ice ...... It will destroy alot if not all your lift.
AS well as ice on control surfaces can cause binding.
Make sure drain holes are clear in fuselage and you have not picked up 10
or 20 pounds inside your tail of ice from weather.
I could go on but Sun will be up soon here and time to go Ski flying !
Thanks to Paul Seehafer for the good write up on Ski flying and the video
link . Thanks Paul and great video !!
And once you all get on skis and floats -- you just might realize what you
been missing and throw those silly black rubber doughnuts away you been used
to
You think landing on glassy water is smooth - try it 2 to 3 feet of fresh
snow !!
Dave
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=37203
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube |
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