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Rough Engine

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cffd(at)pgrb.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: Rough Engine

I have a Jabiru 2200, serial # 988 with 91  hours.

It is on a Zenith 701 with a Prince P-Tip prop 64X26.

  

 During the last couple of flights I noticed some  vibration starting a couple of minutes after takeoff while still climbing at  wide open throttle (about 3000 rpm).  Throttling back to 2800 rpm the  vibration went away.  But climbing later in flight at wide open throttle  the vibration returned, the vibration was not bad but noticeable.  

On  my most recent flight, the vibration started again a couple of minutes into the  flight.  Later in flight to climb the vibration got very bad (rough) and  shook the whole airplane.  Throttling back it was a smooth as glass.   It seemed that the vibration would now start before wide open throttle and also  carb heat seemed to make it worse.  I throttled back to 2800 rpm and headed  for home and landed in about 10 minutes.  Engine was smooth. 

  

 I periodically check the exhaust pipes for  soot.  Usually there would be a little on my finger, but this  past flight it was very black and completely covered the end of my finger.  

  

 Any suggestions as to what the problem is and how  to fix it?



 Thanks,

 Chuck D.

 N701TX

   [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: Rough Engine

The blackness might be an indication of high fuel level, caused by a  

stuck open or leaky float needle valve/seat. My 2200 exhibited a  

roughness at idle and I traced it to a leaky needle valve and/or  

seat, and replacing them (with a smaller size, by the way) cured my  

problem. It could  be that yours likes to leak at WOT instead of like  

mine, which was at idle.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs



On Nov 28, 2007, at 12:27 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a Jabiru 2200, serial # 988 with 91 hours.

 It is on a Zenith 701 with a Prince P-Tip prop 64X26.



 During the last couple of flights I noticed some vibration starting  

 a couple of minutes after takeoff while still climbing at wide open  

 throttle (about 3000 rpm).  Throttling back to 2800 rpm the  

 vibration went away.  But climbing later in flight at wide open  

 throttle the vibration returned, the vibration was not bad but  

 noticeable.

 On my most recent flight, the vibration started again a couple of  

 minutes into the flight.  Later in flight to climb the vibration  

 got very bad (rough) and shook the whole airplane.  Throttling back  

 it was a smooth as glass.  It seemed that the vibration would now  

 start before wide open throttle and also carb heat seemed to make  

 it worse.  I throttled back to 2800 rpm and headed for home and  

 landed in about 10 minutes.  Engine was smooth.



 I periodically check the exhaust pipes for soot.  Usually there  

 would be a little on my finger, but this past flight it was very  

 black and completely covered the end of my finger.



 Any suggestions as to what the problem is and how to fix it?

 Thanks,

 Chuck D.

 N701TX

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: Rough Engine

Seems like you are running too rich at high throttle settings Chuck. 



First thing to check would be the float valve. Make sure that when you drop the bowl off the carb (carefully to prevent spilling any fuel) you should have about 7/16" from the fuel level to the edge of the bowl. Your mid-range jet and needle may be keeping the mixture corectly until you open up enough to run on the main jet alone. Could be an adjustment problem or something preventing the valve from seating fully.



Second, make sure that the balance line from the carb to the airbox is in place securely at both ends.



Third, check the airfilter and airbox/scat tube/NACA scoop for obstructions.



Finally, make sure that the enrichment circuit (choke) is not being activated as you open the throttle.



Keep us posted on what you find and how it all shakes out.



Dred



---- Chuck Deiterich <cffd(at)pgrb.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a Jabiru 2200, serial # 988 with 91 hours.

 It is on a Zenith 701 with a Prince P-Tip prop 64X26.

 

 During the last couple of flights I noticed some vibration starting a couple of minutes after takeoff while still climbing at wide open throttle (about 3000 rpm).  Throttling back to 2800 rpm the vibration went away.

BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: Rough Engine

Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: Rough Engine

Chuck,  

I had minor to moderate patches of vibration in the J3300 so when we had a week of bad weather I spent three days static balancing the prop very carefully with the spinner and backing plate. Next flight when turning left and decelerating I had major vibration shaking the cowl and reduced throttle had no immediate effect.  

It was scary.  

I got a dynamic balance done and we had to add a 1’4” bolt X3/4 long with washer and nut to the backing plate.  

From the first start it was like a different engine even in the hangar it was very noticeable.  

It is clear to me that the engine itself was out of balance and I have now compensated for the problem. My prop/spinner assembly is now no way static balanced. I think the broken flywheel bolts could be due to poorly balanced engines.  

I would recommend a dynamic balance. You need to mark the boss and the prop and backing plate when the job is done for reassembly.  

Peter H  

         

  

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich

 Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2007 3:27 AM

 To: Jabiru-List

 Subject: Rough Engine   

  

     

I have a Jabiru 2200, serial # 988 with 91 hours.

 It is on a Zenith 701 with a Prince P-Tip prop 64X26.  

    

   

    

During the last couple of flights I noticed some vibration starting a couple of minutes after takeoff while still climbing at wide open throttle (about 3000 rpm).  Throttling back to 2800 rpm the vibration went away.  But climbing later in flight at wide open throttle the vibration returned, the vibration was not bad but noticeable.  

 On my most recent flight, the vibration started again a couple of minutes into the flight.  Later in flight to climb the vibration got very bad (rough) and shook the whole airplane.  Throttling back it was a smooth as glass.  It seemed that the vibration would now start before wide open throttle and also carb heat seemed to make it worse.  I throttled back to 2800 rpm and headed for home and landed in about 10 minutes.  Engine was smooth.   

    

   

    

I periodically check the exhaust pipes for soot.  Usually there would be a little on my finger, but this past flight it was very black and completely covered the end of my finger.   

    

   

    

Any suggestions as to what the problem is and how to fix it?  

    

Thanks,  

    

Chuck D.  

    

N701TX  

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        [quote][b]

Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Rough Engine

I agree with Lynn. I also had a problem caused because the start throttle

lever was not fully returning due to friction in the cable. This caused over

rich running throughout the power range.

Peter



--

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: Rough Engine

Chuck, you have a firing issue. If it was me the first thing I would do is chage plugs. They may be failing for one reason of another. I had somewhat of a similiar problem with my 3300 but the solution was a divider in the intake . I would also check the ends of the plugs, and the distributor cap for tightness. Lastly, you may have a problem in the carb for too rich. See Jab manual for help. Best of luck, Bill 

 

 --

cffd(at)pgrb.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: Rough Engine

Thanks for all of the replies, I now have places to  look and will let you know what I find.  I do not have any EGT's but will  probably get them.

Chuck D.

N701TX

   [quote][b]

cygan(at)optusnet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: Rough Engine

G'Day Folks,



I had a rough engine problem too.



When checking EVERYTHING I found that the "door" that switched from normal 

intake air to heated air for carb heat was rotating on the shaft.



I disassembled it and put in a roll pin (a very tight fitting one) and used 

a bit of  lock tight to be sure it stayed there.



Cheers from Australia.



Cy

Series V - Jabiru 3300

grant.piper(at)bigpond.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: Rough Engine

G'day Cy,



Good to hear you are aviating at last!   I'll have to come and have sticky 

sometime.



Hope you and Patricia are well.



Regards,



Grant Piper

63774556

cffd(at)pgrb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: Rough Engine

Remember I complained about my 2200 running rough at WOT with much soot

in  exhaust pipes. On the ground I opened the wing tank valve (no pumps

at all)  and gas poured out of the carb. (I am going to replace the float

needle with  the one that has a stronger spring built in. The orange

tipped needle spring  takes about 2 oz to depress it about 1 mm, the

stronger black tipped needle  takes about 30 oz to depress it 1 mm.) With

the carb bowl off, it takes very,  very little pressure on the old needle

to stop the flow.



I got to  thinking maybe the float has taken on fluid. I weighed it at

the post office  and it measured to be 0.4 oz. Bing factory says my white

float should weigh  10 grams or about 0.35 oz. (The scale only showed

tenths of oz.) So I  suspended the float in a bowl of gas with a wire

through the hinges. With the  float level, only 6 mm of the float was out

of the gasoline. This appears to  me that the fuel in the bowl must be

this high before the float can apply  pressure to the needle. The fuel is

supposed to be =BD in below the bowl lip  when not on the carb, it will

be a bit higher when the float is in it, but  not that much higher. I am

going to let the float "dry" out and check it in  gas again. More later.



Chuck  D.

N701TX



   [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Rough Engine

My white float weighs 191 grains, (using a balance scale) converted  

to .437 ounces, or 12.38 grams, just for comparison,

I've found that there are at least two different black-tipped  

needles....I have one that has a black spring plunger and it is  

strong, and one that has a silver spring plunger, and it is  

considered by Bing to be "medium" strong. At least that's what the  

invoice said for the silver one. It was shipped to be the companion  

for the 1.5mm seat.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs



On Dec 18, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Remember I complained about my 2200 running rough at WOT with much  

 soot

 in exhaust pipes. On the ground I opened the wing tank valve (no pumps

 at all) and gas poured out of the carb. (I am going to replace the  

 float

 needle with the one that has a stronger spring built in. The orange

 tipped needle spring takes about 2 oz to depress it about 1 mm, the

 stronger black tipped needle takes about 30 oz to depress it 1 mm.)  

 With

 the carb bowl off, it takes very, very little pressure on the old  

 needle

 to stop the flow.



 I got to thinking maybe the float has taken on fluid. I weighed it at

 the post office and it measured to be 0.4 oz. Bing factory says my  

 white

 float should weigh 10 grams or about 0.35 oz. (The scale only showed

 tenths of oz.) So I suspended the float in a bowl of gas with a wire

 through the hinges. With the float level, only 6 mm of the float  

 was out

 of the gasoline. This appears to me that the fuel in the bowl must be

 this high before the float can apply pressure to the needle. The  

 fuel is

 supposed to be =BD in below the bowl lip when not on the carb, it will

 be a bit higher when the float is in it, but not that much higher.  

 I am

 going to let the float "dry" out and check it in gas again. More  

 later.



 Chuck D.

 N701TX



 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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