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Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

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lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

If you have  experienced and solved the following problem pls let me  know.

  

 My 912ULS was  sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in my new Zenith 701 but  works well. My battery is new. I followed Aeroelectric's 912 wiring  diagram, which included a low voltage warning light that triggers at  12.5V (if you have a CAD program you can look the diagram at http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.)  When I fly the plane, the low voltage warning light comes on as soon as  I turn on anything requiring more than minimal power consumption (like  the strobes) and the new battery voltage is lower after I land than it  was before take off. Since the battery is draining in flight, the assumption is  that the 912 alternator or voltage regulator is  malfunctioning. 

  

 I need to know if  anyone else has experienced this situation, what was done to fix  it, how to isolate and fix the problem, etc. Any help would be  appreciated.

  

 Regards,

 Les

510-549-1622    

   [quote][b]

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Les Goldner a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you have experienced and solved the following problem pls let me know.

  

 My 912ULS was sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in my 

 new Zenith 701 but works well. My battery is new. I followed 

 Aeroelectric's 912 wiring diagram, which included a low voltage 

 warning light that triggers at 12.5V (if you have a CAD program you 

 can look the diagram 

 at http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.) 

 When I fly the plane, the low voltage warning light comes on as soon 

 as I turn on anything requiring more than minimal power consumption 

 (like the strobes) and the new battery voltage is lower after I land 

 than it was before take off. Since the battery is draining in flight, 

 the assumption is that the 912 alternator or voltage regulator is 

 malfunctioning. 


	


Les,



I too have wired two planes as per Z16.

What I'd do first is a thorough review of the actual wiring to check 

that everything is OK. There have been several occurences of forgotten 

connections.

Then actually measure bus voltage when running.



Also, you'll get more considerate opinions if you post your question on 

the Aeroelectric 'List.



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

yxh56(at)ukgateway.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Hi,



I've just had a look at that .dwg and compared it to the wiring  

diagram for my Europa.  There is one difference and one "clarity" issue.



First the clarity.  You must ensure that the regulator case is  

connected to earth. If not it will not work.



Secondly, the .dwg file gives no indication of the function of the "L"  

connector of the regulator.  It is in fact for a alternator fail  

waring lamp which should be connected across L & C.  The Europa  

diagram shows it as  a 12v 3w bulb.



The diagram for the Europa can be found at http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/buildersmanuals/CBM-25-ELECTRICAL 

  SYSTEM.pdf



Page 109 of the 912s installation manual also shows the alternator  

warning light.



Simon Smith

europa504(at)gmail.com





On 2 Jan 2008, at 17:32, Gilles Thesee wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Les Goldner a écrit :

> If you have experienced and solved the following problem pls let me  

> know.

> My 912ULS was sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in  

> my new Zenith 701 but works well. My battery is new. I followed  

> Aeroelectric's 912 wiring diagram, which included a low voltage  

> warning light that triggers at 12.5V (if you have a CAD program you  

> can look the diagram at http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.) 

>  When I fly the plane, the low voltage warning light comes on as  

> soon as I turn on anything requiring more than minimal power  

> consumption (like the strobes) and the new battery voltage is lower  

> after I land than it was before take off. Since the battery is  

> draining in flight, the assumption is that the 912 alternator or  

> voltage regulator is malfunctioning.



 Les,



 I too have wired two planes as per Z16.

 What I'd do first is a thorough review of the actual wiring to check  

 that everything is OK. There have been several occurences of  

 forgotten connections.

 Then actually measure bus voltage when running.



 Also, you'll get more considerate opinions if you post your question  

 on the Aeroelectric 'List.



 Best regards,

 -- 

 Gilles

 http://contrails.free.fr

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

I would love to be able to look over that schematic but i don't have a program to open it. Is there a free program online to read that type of file?

  

 Thanks,

  

 Scott 

 www.ill-EagleAviation.com

  

 Do Not Archive

 ____________________________________________________________________________

  

  If you have experienced and solved the following problem pls let me know.

      

      My 912ULS was sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in my new

      Zenith 701 but works well. My battery is new. I followed Aeroelectric's 912

      wiring diagram, which included a low voltage warning light that triggers at

      12.5V (if you have a CAD program you can look the diagram at

      http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.) When I fly

      the plane, the low voltage warning light comes on as soon as I turn on

      anything requiring more than minimal power consumption (like the strobes)

      and the new battery voltage is lower after I land than it was before take

      off. Since the battery is draining in flight, the assumption is that the 912

      alternator or voltage regulator is malfunctioning. 

      

      I need to know if anyone else has experienced this situation, what was done

      to fix it, how to isolate and fix the problem, etc. Any help would be

      appreciated.

      

      Regards,

      Les





Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Icrashrc(at)aol.com a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would love to be able to look over that schematic but i don't have a 

 program to open it. Is there a free program online to read that type 

 of file?

  


	


http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/edrawings/viewer.html



Also, the Z drawings are downloadable in .pdf format in the Appendix Z 

on www.aeroelectric.com



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Are you sure your electrical system has a LOW voltage sensor?  I also

used Bob Nichols 912 wiring diagram, and he suggests the use of his

OVER voltage protector circuit, which consists of an over voltage

sensor of his design, and a relay that shuts down the regulator if

voltage gets too high.  This system operates when you turn on the

master, and then is totally transparent unless the regulator goes nuts

and goes full tilt, which apparently it can do.  I wonder if you don't

have the OV system and you are getting a high voltage situation which

shuts down your charging system.



The other really nice thing about Bob's system is that he wires the

Master switch so that nothing else can operate unless the Master is

on, including the starter.



Jack



On Jan 6, 2008 5:11 AM,  <Icrashrc(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 I would love to be able to look over that schematic but i don't have a

 program to open it. Is there a free program online to read that type of

 file?



 Thanks,



 Scott

 www.ill-EagleAviation.com



 Do Not Archive

 ____________________________________________________________________________



  If you have experienced and solved the following problem pls let me know.



       My 912ULS was sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in my

 new

       Zenith 701 but works well. My battery is new. I followed

 Aeroelectric's 912

       wiring diagram, which included a low voltage warning light that

 triggers at

       12.5V (if you have a CAD program you can look the diagram at

       http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.) When

 I fly

       the plane, the low voltage warning light comes on as soon as I turn on

       anything requiring more than minimal power consumption (like the

 strobes)

       and the new battery voltage is lower after I land than it was before

 take

       off. Since the battery is draining in flight, the assumption is that

 the 912

       alternator or voltage regulator is malfunctioning.



       I need to know if anyone else has experienced this situation, what was

 done

       to fix it, how to isolate and fix the problem, etc. Any help would be

       appreciated.



       Regards,

       Les



 ________________________________

 Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.






	


-- 

Jack Kuehn

5565 Brady Ln

Lolo, MT USA 59847



(406)273-6801

(406)546-1086 cell

jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com

(406)273-2563 fax

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Without additional info, it does sound like a low voltage condition. Not Hi.

Increasing load drops supply voltage. QED.



Nuckolls does in fact make a low voltage sensor he calls the low-voltage

battery minder circuit which I use to transfer my EFIS to a spare

battery if the alternators drop off line in my Europa.



Definitely check all connections with an ohm meter if possible because you

may not see corrosion in crimps or contacts. Ground the regulator

module directly to the engine block with heavy wire.



The L lead (alt warn lamp) lead on the regulator is not mandatory and the

Nuckolls module which replaces it is smarter.



Definitely measure the bus voltage where the alternator joins the bus

after the contactor and on the actual bus after the diodes etc. 	  Code:

_________________
Ira N224XS

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

I will send anyone  who can't read the schematic drawing a Adobe PDF file. If you can't read it let  me know and I will send a jpg.

 Regards,

 Les 



 [quote]         From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    Icrashrc(at)aol.com

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:12    AM

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:    Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

   

   I would love to be able to look over that schematic but i don't have a    program to open it. Is there a free program online to read that type of    file?

    

   Thanks,

    

   Scott 

   www.ill-EagleAviation.com

    

   Do Not Archive

   ____________________________________________________________________________

    

    If you have experienced and solved the following problem pls let me    know.

      

      My    912ULS was sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in my    new

      Zenith 701 but works well. My battery is    new. I followed Aeroelectric's 912

      wiring    diagram, which included a low voltage warning light that triggers    at

      12.5V (if you have a CAD program you can    look the diagram at

      http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.)    When I fly

      the plane, the low voltage    warning light comes on as soon as I turn on

         anything requiring more than minimal power consumption (like the    strobes)

      and the new battery voltage is    lower after I land than it was before take

         off. Since the battery is draining in flight, the assumption is that the    912

      alternator or voltage regulator is    malfunctioning. 

         

      I need to know if anyone else has    experienced this situation, what was done

      to    fix it, how to isolate and fix the problem, etc. Any help would    be

         appreciated.

         

      Regards,

         Les





         Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Ira,

B&C Electric sold me a over/under voltage module that replaces

Aeroelectic's. I think its working OK because it does indicate an under

voltage condition and the battery is not charging. 

I plan to add an under voltage warning light temporarily on the L port of

the regulator as some here have suggested. Then I can see if AC voltage is

coming into from the 912. This will tell me that my problems down-stream

from the engine alternator/dynamo. If it is, there are several components

and a lot of wiring I need to check out... A big job in hard to get to

places!

Les     



[quote] --

paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Les,

  

 Please send me a copy of the pdf file.

  

 Regards,

 Paul Kuntz

 Pipistrel Sinus 912

 http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com

  

 [quote]   ---

JOE RONCO

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
Location: CENTENNIAL COLORADO

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

SCOTT: You might want to check out this link for free software. I have not used it but it might be what you are looking for.  

   

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=8824283  

   

Joe R  

       

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Icrashrc(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:12 AM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS  

  

  

     

I would love to be able to look over that schematic but i don't have a program to open it. Is there a free program online to read that type of file?  

    

   

    

Thanks,  

    

   

    

Scott   

    

www.ill-EagleAviation.com  

    

   

    

Do Not Archive  

    

____________________________________________________________________________  

    

   

    

 If you have experienced and solved the following problem pls let me know.

       

       My 912ULS was sitting unopened for 3-years before I installed it in my new

       Zenith 701 but works well. My battery is new. I followed Aeroelectric's 912

       wiring diagram, which included a low voltage warning light that triggers at

       12.5V (if you have a CAD program you can look the diagram at

       http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z16L.dwg.) When I fly

       the plane, the low voltage warning light comes on as soon as I turn on

       anything requiring more than minimal power consumption (like the strobes)

       and the new battery voltage is lower after I land than it was before take

       off. Since the battery is draining in flight, the assumption is that the 912

       alternator or voltage regulator is malfunctioning. 

       

       I need to know if anyone else has experienced this situation, what was done

       to fix it, how to isolate and fix the problem, etc. Any help would be

       appreciated.

       

       Regards,

       Les  

  



 

         

  

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.   

   	  Quote: 	
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        [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Hi Les,



I would do is do a diagnostic on my reg/rec voltage in and out to the unit. You may have a bad connection or wired wrong or it might be bad. Good trouble shooting comes from good diagnostics. Always start at the beginning and start checking the wire and voltage along the way. Make sure the charging voltage is getting to the end of the system.

Sorry no easy fix here. Just need to check voltage  along its route.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: Low voltage problem- new 912ULS

Roger,

I did follow the circuit and think I found the problem (but can't be sure

until the weather clears and I fly the plane). 



A fuselink between SW1-4 (which powers the Alternator controller coil) and

the Alternator controller was blown. It likely shorting out during

construction because it isn't shorting now.



After spending 9-hours trying to track-down the problem I have a concern

about using fuselinks. Unlike a fuse, you can't see that a fuselink has

blown. Had I used a fuse rather than a fuselink I would have found the

problem in minutes! 



Since my fuse holder is right next to this fuselink and I won't expose the

circuit to extra lengths of non-fused wire, I plan to replace the fuselink

with a 1-AMP ATC (bayonet type) fuse on my main buss.



Regards,

Les    



[quote] --

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