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qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount
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tomhanaway(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Slightly different question re: removing floor panels in rv-10 quickbuilds.  Yes, they are tight to get out.  

I don’t see any way to remove the front floor panels without completely removing the gear mounts.  Priming has given me peace of mind but I’m having a tough time figuring out how to get out the front floor panels without significant removal of installed parts.  Am I missing something?  

Thanks.  

   

Tom Hanaway  

Boynton Beach,  FL  

   

       [quote][b]

effectus(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Tom,

  

 I had the same issue with the front floor pans. After I removed the gear weldments and completed all of the things I needed to do under the floor pans I modified the floor pans to fit around the gear weldment. This will make it exponentially easier in the future to get under there should I need to.

  

 I modified them by cutting a triangular portion of the floorpan away from the main section. This smaller portion is perminantly mounted in around the weldment. To it, I riveted a strip of aluminum that I could rivet the rest of the floor panel to. This way I can simply drill out the rivets along this line and be able to pull out the larger section.

  

 I hope this makes sense. If you need more info or pictures just contact me off-line.

  

 Dave Hertner

 40164 Wing Tips



 ---

John Ackerman

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Prescott, AZ

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

 	  Quote: 	
		  Am I missing something? 	
No, I don't think you are. I found the jillion AN-3 bolts very hard to remove; I got them out by pulling on the heads with a vise-grip plier, and that damaged the heads. My solution was to cut off the heads and grind and polish the the thread end to a bullet shape. The resulting pins were lubed and used as guide pins for the installation of new bolts. The install was a great deal easier than the removal; the hard part was reaching some of the nuts. I remember wishing for a long set of wrenches.hope this helps

John Ackerman 40458



On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:58 AM, Tom Hanaway wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Slightly different question re: removing floor panels in rv-10 quickbuilds.  Yes, they are tight to get out.

I don’t see any way to remove the front floor panels without completely removing the gear mounts.  Priming has given me peace of mind but I’m having a tough time figuring out how to get out the front floor panels without significant removal of installed parts.  Am I missing something?

Thanks. 



Tom Hanaway

Boynton Beach, FL 



 	  Quote: 	
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poneill(at)irealms.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

I  spent a few days trying to figure out a way around tearing down all that  assembly before resigning myself to it.

  

 I actually had more problems  with the screws on the side panels than the bolts.  Most were easy but a  few became stripped despite my best efforts.

  

 Though  the nuts and bolts for the seat pedestal panels and gear weldements  were definitely no fun at all.  I just kept telling myself that it was  still faster than building it all from scratch.  Eventually that  helped a little.

  

 I just  wish they did less of the things you need to undo and more of the things that  are more difficult to do after all the QB assembly.

  

 Best  Regards,

 Patrick #40715



 [quote]   

   --

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Started the  task of removing the gear weldments yesterday and found the first one to be as much "fun" as anticipated. Thinking ahead to the reinstall process, I am curious about the procedure to get bolts back in. They were so tight coming out, that I can't imagine they will go in easily. How does one apply the force necessary to install those bolts? John Ackerman, you mentioned grinding down the old bolts and using them as guide pins. Could you elaborate? Any pics?

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

David;



You can put some LP 3 on the bolts to help them slide in.   Just clean 

off the threads before you put the washer and nut on.



Fred

40515. 

Fun with fiberglass...  Wheel pants almost done. 



Had the pleasure of meeting Mark Ritter and seeing his 10 this weekend 

at the cafe in Brenham, Texas.



dmaib(at)mac.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Started the  task of removing the gear weldments yesterday and found the first one to be as much "fun" as anticipated. Thinking ahead to the reinstall process, I am curious about the procedure to get bolts back in. They were so tight coming out, that I can't imagine they will go in easily. How does one apply the force necessary to install those bolts? John Ackerman, you mentioned grinding down the old bolts and using them as guide pins. Could you elaborate? Any pics?



 --------

 David Maib

 RV-10 #40559





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155133#155133

John Ackerman

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Prescott, AZ

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Here's what I did:

Hacksawed off the bolt heads to make  pins out of the bolts.

Filed cut end more-or-less flat -just a few strokes were needed. You can chuck the pin in a drill press to do this, but it's not really necessary.

Ground off the threads, holding the pin in a drill, and rotating opposite to the wheel. Made the (previously) threaded end into a bullet-like shape. Not quite as blunt as a pistol bullet – say a .45 ACP round nose – but not sharp like a high velocity bullet,either. This is not terribly critical, but the idea is for the pin to work its way into two slightly misaligned holes, drawing them in alignment with a lot of motion (small mechanical advantage) at first, and a small amount of motion (large force) as the pin gets in farther. Eyeballing the shape gave a product that was good enough to work very well.

Polished on a fine Scotchbrite wheel.

Covered the pins with grease, wiping off excess.  I used Lubriplate, but I doubt it matters.

Placed weldment in position.

Pushed all the pins into the holes, pushing the pins  in a little at a time, going from pin to pin, tapping as required. Hardly any tapping was needed on mine. YMMV.

Used the new bolts to push pins on through, tapping as required - again not much.  

This whole process did not take very long. You only need one set of pins – probably not even a full set because the first bolt is put in while the parts are free to move.

I was worried about clearing the rear spar structure as the pins were pushed on through, but they all fell out the other side without hitting anything.  You may want to check pin lengths before inserting them and shorten if/as required.

As I recall, I had to use a swivel socket to get on the nuts, and a long extension for reach.

Like you, I had a very  hard time removing the bolts. I recall it was difficult getting past the floor skin, as well.

Bolting the weldment back was a piece of cake. The pins moved it into alignment and kept that alignment while the bolts displaced them.

I'm quite sure the bolt threads did not damage the holes and vice versa.

Hope this is useful. 

Happy new year!

John and Marlys   40458

On Dec 31, 2007, at 4:10 AM, dmaib(at)mac.com (dmaib(at)mac.com) wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib(at)mac.com (dmaib(at)mac.com)" <dmaib(at)mac.com (dmaib(at)mac.com)>

Started the  task of removing the gear weldments yesterday and found the first one to be as much "fun" as anticipated. Thinking ahead to the reinstall process, I am curious about the procedure to get bolts back in. They were so tight coming out, that I can't imagine they will go in easily. How does one apply the force necessary to install those bolts? John Ackerman, you mentioned grinding down the old bolts and using them as guide pins. Could you elaborate? Any pics?

David Maib

RV-10 #40559

[b]

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Am I stupid or am I missing something



I know that it would be a good idea to check the QB work and have a placement for my MB and transponder antennas, but why take up the floorboards. I think that they are already primed. Carpet with some foam backing will provide front insulation..... splain me

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

In my case it was nice to clean out the extra tools that they

left under there.  They sent me an assortment of clecos

and drill bits unintentionally.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

AirMike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Am I stupid or am I missing something

 

 I know that it would be a good idea to check the QB work and have a

 placement for my MB and transponder antennas, but why take up the

 floorboards. I think that they are already primed. Carpet with some

 foam backing will provide front insulation..... splain me

 

 -------- OSH '08 or Bust Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155468#155468

patrick.pulis(at)seagas.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Great to see you back Tim, happy new year.



How did the road trip to the snow go?



Regards



Patrick

South Australia

Do Not Archive 



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Just got in minutes ago so there's a lot of catching up to do.

I think I'll do a short trip write-up on the experience traveling.

It was a great time, but it's definitely nicer traveling by -10!

Still, we had a blast out there.  Sorry so short.  Hopefully I'll

start caching up tomorrow.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Patrick Pulis wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Great to see you back Tim, happy new year.

 

 How did the road trip to the snow go?

 

 Regards

 

 Patrick

 South Australia

 

 

 Do Not Archive 

 

 --

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

 	  AirMike wrote: 	
		  Am I stupid or am I missing something



I know that it would be a good idea to check the QB work and have a placement for my MB and transponder antennas, but why take up the floorboards. I think that they are already primed. Carpet with some foam backing will provide front insulation..... splain me 	




AirMike,

I've wondered the same thing myself. If inspection is the only purpose, then why not cut an inspection port? Make it large enough to get your hand in and you have access to install antennas. To close the port up, get one of those plastic round caps the post office uses for tube mailers. If strength is degraded, then screw a top plate on it.

To me it's like the QB wings: the bottom skin was put on by the QB folks so that you can't easily rivet the flap fairings. Big deal, that's what CherryMax rivets are for.



Just my opinion,

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

I found the same thing, several old clecos and some junk.  It's definitely

worth looking at the area under the floorboards and putting sound proofing

against the bottom skin makes a huge difference in my opinion.



Marcus



--

John Ackerman

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Prescott, AZ

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

I agree, but put the sound insulation on the bottom of the floorboard  

rather than the bottom skin so that it can't trap water...

John Ackerman 40458   do not archive

On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Marcus Cooper wrote:



[quote] 



 I found the same thing, several old clecos and some junk.  It's  

 definitely

 worth looking at the area under the floorboards and putting sound  

 proofing

 against the bottom skin makes a huge difference in my opinion.



 Marcus



 --

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

OK, I went and pulled the bedsheets off of my QB Fuselage and took a good look. A total of 12 pull rivets holding down each of the aft passenger floorboards. I can see where it would be tricky to pull it because of all the AN470 rivet heads, etc. I'll go through the plans tomorrow and figure out what's underneath. There must be something I'm missing because I don't see why it's such a problem.



I'll get back tomorrow.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

Spent an hour today pouring over the plans and identifying the issues. Pulling any of the floorboards (front or back) pretty much defeats the purpose of "Quick Build" in my opinion. The front ones do have limited access as far as fishing out surprises, but I don't see any other need to get in there (please tell me if I'm wrong). The rear floorboards are very thin in depth, but an errant cleco could be in there. I  suspect a strong magnet would answer that question.

As far as antenna placement, the baggage floor seems a far easier place for access.



I hope that nobody thinks I'm being forward or pushy, but I'm at a loss for a good reason to spend hours undoing what I just paid to have done.



Humbly and ready to take some shots,

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

I concur: my QB number for the fuselage was #8 and they did not at that time

install the forward weldment support nut plates; I reported this to Van's

and indicated that that was the only reason to remove it. I believe that

they have since installed the nut plates for the forward support. In my case

they also installed the mid fuselage floorboards with stemmed blinds and

thus the removal was complicated slightly; it require some finesse to get

the floors out. Underneath nothing was found.  



--

coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

John,

    Your's may be different, but my QB had temporary (soft) rivets holding

the floorboards in and didn't take long to remove.  I needed to remove those

rivets anyway and there weren't that many of them so it made sense to pop

them out and have a look.  Plus the opportunity to add noise insulation.  If

your panels are completely riveted in then I can see your hesitancy.



Marcus



--

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

if you are tearing a QB apart to find a cleco.. just move the fuselage 

around and see if you hear anything.. I gathered people were doing this for 

the insulation install and putting conduit in that space, hence the effort 

to remove the floorboards to get in there. If you don't see any need to do 

anything under the floor, I'd agree focus your time and effort elsewhere.

as far as being forward or pushy..I commend you for not being a blind 

follower and thinking this out for your individual case.



Pascal

#720



---

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount

John,



I could not make up my mind. One day I was going to pull them out,  

and the next day I wasn't going to. In the end, I decided to dig in  

and do it. I am about halfway through the process and I must say, I  

agree with you. I paid good money for the quick build and am now  

spending lots of precious time taking it apart. I think the problems  

with tools under the floor and quality control issues have probably  

been laid to rest since the early days. It is not particularly hard,  

just time consuming and the value is minimal. Since I am committed, I  

plan to go ahead and put insulating/sound deadening material in  

there. I will probably go ahead and put the transponder antenna and  

perhaps a comm antenna under the front floor as well. But, if I had  

it to do over again...........................probably not.



David Maib

40559

On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:40 PM, johngoodman wrote:




<johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>



Spent an hour today pouring over the plans and identifying the  

issues. Pulling any of the floorboards (front or back) pretty much  

defeats the purpose of "Quick Build" in my opinion. The front ones do  

have limited access as far as fishing out surprises, but I don't see  

any other need to get in there (please tell me if I'm wrong). The  

rear floorboards are very thin in depth, but an errant cleco could be  

in there. I  suspect a strong magnet would answer that question.

As far as antenna placement, the baggage floor seems a far easier  

place for access.



I hope that nobody thinks I'm being forward or pushy, but I'm at a  

loss for a good reason to spend hours undoing what I just paid to  

have done.



Humbly and ready to take some shots,

John



--------

#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived

N711JG reserved





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155834#155834

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

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