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GPS antennae siting

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willie.harrison(at)tinyon
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Hi Folks



Does anyone know if a GPS antenna can "see through" the top of the  

instrument pod satisfactorily if it is located on the underside of  

the top of the pod?



Cheers



Willie

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: Re: GPS antennae siting

Hi Willie,



Yes, GPS does quite well through plastic. Inside the panel is indeed

where I have my antenna

_________________
Ira N224XS

Trevpond(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Hi Willie,

  

 Both of mine do!

  

  

 regards

  

  

 Trev  Pond G-LINN

  

     [quote][b]

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Willie,



Both my GPS and XM weather antennae are inside the dash panel.  

Excellent reception...



Jeff - Baby Blue

365 hrs



William Harrison wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <willie.harrison(at)tinyonline.co.uk>



 Hi Folks



 Does anyone know if a GPS antenna can "see through" the top of the 

 instrument pod satisfactorily if it is located on the underside of the 

 top of the pod?



 Cheers



 Willie

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Slightly off-topic, has anyone used a Zaon XRX PCAS in a Europa and was the 

siting of this found to be critical for good performance?

http://www.zaon.aero/content/blogcategory/1/53/

In particular, any variation on the location ? e.g. instrument buried in the 

top of the panel with just the antenna poking out of the top.



Duncan McF.

---

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

No not the XRX



Both Brian Tarmar and I have the Zaon MRX PCAS.  I will leave Brian to

comment on his experience.  Mine is mounted in a clip (made from Bid) on

top the panel, in the centre.  This is low enough not to obstruct

forward vision but is easy to see.  Seems to work OK.



Sorry but too poor to afford a XRX at present.



Ian Rickard  #505 G-IANI XS Trigear

Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)

e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk   

   or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

<<Sorry but too poor to afford a XRX at present.>>

Ian, Thanks.

It only has to prevent one midair to prevent your relatives and dependents 

being poorer still! And in reducing the value of the Europa to scrap.



There was a 'statistic' mentioned on the Flyer forum recently that less than 

half the UK GA fleet has a transponder fitted (less still turned on and 

working!); and that was EXcluding microlights etc. So the potential 

effectiveness of the system is in that case somewhat limited, in addition to 

the danger of the false sense of security that the device may engender. 

Still, I wouldn't mind having one and could justify it more than the cost of 

some other toy, eg a VP prop.



Regards,

Duncan.



---

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Willie, It sounds from your replies that top of instrument panel gives OK

results, but I wonder whether  the fuselage top between your doors may give

even better results, as I can imagine that pilot and passenger will blank

some satellites for a panel aerial in some situations. Everyone I have flown

with on the  trips I have done in Italy have lost GPS signal at some point,

but I never did. I had tended to put this down to superior performance of my

Garmin 295 as opposed to most people's Skymaps, but it may be because I have

my aerial above head level. The cable supplied by Garmin and by Blue

Mountain is plenty long enough to reach there, and otherwise gets coiled up

behind the panel where it could possibly be subject to electronic

interference. Regards, David

---

willie.harrison(at)tinyon
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Thanks, David and everyone. Presumably, as well as avoiding the  

shielding effect of the crew, antenna height relative to the engine  

and the metalwork in the panel itself would help comms with  

satellites close to the horizon.



On our last French trip in October, (Paddy Clarke, Alasdair Milne,  

myself) we all lost GPS signal at various times as well. In addition,  

my "Old Faithful" 295 died peacefully (so peacefully that there was  

only a frozen display with no explicit warning that it was  

meaningless - charming).



Cheers



Willie

On 5 Feb 2008, at 21:57, David Joyce wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>



 Willie, It sounds from your replies that top of instrument panel  

 gives OK

 results, but I wonder whether  the fuselage top between your doors  

 may give

 even better results, as I can imagine that pilot and passenger will  

 blank

 some satellites for a panel aerial in some situations. Everyone I  

 have flown

 with on the  trips I have done in Italy have lost GPS signal at  

 some point,

 but I never did. I had tended to put this down to superior  

 performance of my

 Garmin 295 as opposed to most people's Skymaps, but it may be  

 because I have

 my aerial above head level. The cable supplied by Garmin and by Blue

 Mountain is plenty long enough to reach there, and otherwise gets  

 coiled up

 behind the panel where it could possibly be subject to electronic

 interference. Regards, David

rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

With the GPS constellation's orbits inclined at 55 degrees from the equator

those of us in the northern hemisphere will find the satellites generally

toward the southern sky.  This is much more significant in northern Europe

(London 51° 29' N, Paris 48° 49' N, for example) where the satellites are

near (or below) the southern horizon most of the time.  I suspect that

eastbound and westbound flights will get better reception than northbound

and southbound flights if the antenna is within the panel since both the

crew and the engine will tend to shadow the antenna.



Can anyone confirm or refute this hypothesis from in-flight experience?

Best regards,



Rob Housman

Irvine, CA 

Europa XS Tri-Gear

A070

Airframe complete



--

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

David

You are correct about locating the aerials above your head for best

reception;  IMHO two people would block most of the signals from the

rear if the aerial is sited in the instrument panel,



As far as the Garmin 295 and the skymaps are concerned the 295 can lock

onto 12 satellites and the skymaps only eight, that was Until two years

ago when Honeywell improved there receiver, they now also can use 12,



. Everyone I have flown

with on the  trips I have done in Italy have lost GPS signal at some

point,

but I never did. I had tended to put this down to superior performance

of my

Garmin 295 as opposed to most people's Skymaps, but it may be because I

have

my aerial above head level





regards

Ivor

avgashead(at)btinternet.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

I take it that anyone who has mounted their aerial overhead has mounted

it somewhere between the forward door hinges and in the small void

between the ceiling close out panel and outer skin? I take it that the

aerial (496) can 'see' OK through the thickness of the fuselage skin?

Richard Scanlan

# 103, just started wiring with upholstery to go.



--

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

Both of my aerials for Garmin and Honeywell are mounted there, they have

no trouble tracking the satellites even in the garage,

I take it that anyone who has mounted their aerial overhead has mounted

it somewhere between the forward door hinges and in the small void

between the ceiling close out panel and outer skin? I take it that the

aerial (496) can 'see' OK through the thickness of the fuselage skin?

Richard Scanlan

# 103, just started wiring with upholstery to go.



Regards

Ivor

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

My experience is that I've never had a drop-out with the 12 channel receiver 

(Garmin 195, installed with the integral antenna at the top of the panel). 

The firewall also has spray-on RFI shielding.



Duncan McF.

---

rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: GPS antennae siting

I have had periods of drop out from my Skymap, which on reflection have

mainly been North to South or South to North.  Going North over the Lake

district and both North and South over the Pyrenees, both at over 4,000

feet, and both for periods of 10 minutes or more. The aerial is internal on

the coaming. This was with a my backup, a handheld Garmin Co- Pilot,

continuing to work as normal.



I also have a newer Skymap in my RV - anyone know how I find out how many

Satellites my 2006 Skymap 111c tracks?



Rick



Rick Morris Tri 912s G-RIKS



--

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: GPS antennae siting

It will be twelve, Click on the GPS status page and you will see how

many its tracking

Regards 

Ivor



I have had periods of drop out from my Skymap, which on reflection have

mainly been North to South or South to North.  Going North over the Lake

district and both North and South over the Pyrenees, both at over 4,000

feet, and both for periods of 10 minutes or more. The aerial is internal

on

the coaming. This was with a my backup, a handheld Garmin Co- Pilot,

continuing to work as normal.



I also have a newer Skymap in my RV - anyone know how I find out how

many

Satellites my 2006 Skymap 111c tracks?



Rick



Rick Morris Tri 912s G-RIKS

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