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Fuel tanks

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John75142

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 56
Location: Kaufman, TX

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: Fuel tanks

Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads called for  around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of the beads. I  don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed the older tanks did not  have this. Are they a necessity?

  

  

 

CREATIVE SIGNWORKS

1168 Byron Rd.

Kaufman, Tx 75142

John &  Mindy Short

972-962-7464

Cell: 214-240-3815

www.creative-sign-works.com

creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com (creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com)

   [quote][b]

_________________
John Short

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tanks

John,

I think those beads are to add some rigidity to spread the loads along the seam, otherwise the loads would get concentrated at the center.  Instead of purchasing a fancy set of beading rollers I made wooden form blocks and squeezed the beeds into the metal.  See the link below.  

By the way I haven't finished my tanks yet, but the beeding blocks worked well.

Dan Dempsey



http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/fuel/beedblocks.htm

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: Fuel tanks

Hi John,

Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge.  This type of weld is 

inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the 

sides.  This is what puts a focus on

bending and stress at the edge weld.  If you turn the ends around flange 

inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving 

3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be 

easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending.  Putting 

indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming

and flexure.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



John Short wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads called 

 for around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of the 

 beads. I don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed the 

 older tanks did not have this. Are they a necessity?

  

  



 CREATIVE SIGNWORKS

 1168 Byron Rd.

 Kaufman, Tx 75142

 John & Mindy Short

 972-962-7464

 Cell: 214-240-3815

 www.creative-sign-works.com <http://www.creative-sign-works.com>

 creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com <mailto:creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com>

 *

 *

John75142

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 56
Location: Kaufman, TX

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Fuel tanks

Thanks for clearing that up, and all the good ideas. This list is the 

greatest, just goes to show you don't have to know everything (or much at 

all) to build a plane. All you have to do is ask and somebody out there will 

know the answer.

Thanks guys



John (Scratch building 701)

Kaufman, Tx

---

_________________
John Short

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tanks

Amen to that! 



Kevin

 	  John75142 wrote: 	
		  Thanks for clearing that up, and all the good ideas. This list is the 

greatest, just goes to show you don't have to know everything (or much at 

all) to build a plane. All you have to do is ask and somebody out there will 

know the answer.

Thanks guys



John (Scratch building 701)

Kaufman, Tx

---

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tanks

So do the beads really need to be along the edge, or would an X pattern in the center of the large panel be sufficient, kind of like on the side of a WWII Jeep fuel can?



 	  larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: 	
		  Hi John,

Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge.  This type of weld is 

inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the 

sides.  This is what puts a focus on

bending and stress at the edge weld.  If you turn the ends around flange 

inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving 

3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be 

easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending.  Putting 

indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming

and flexure.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



John Short wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads called 

 for around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of the 

 beads. I don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed the 

 older tanks did not have this. Are they a necessity?

  

  



 CREATIVE SIGNWORKS

 1168 Byron Rd.

 Kaufman, Tx 75142

 John & Mindy Short

 972-962-7464

 Cell: 214-240-3815

 www.creative-sign-works.com <http>

 creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com <mailto>

 *

 *

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: Fuel tanks

Hi Andy,

If you were to retain the turned-out edge-weld, then the bead parallel 

with the weld would be an advantage.  This would keep stresses from 

concentrating

at the center of each straight section edge weld.  If the welds were 

done flange in, there is little advantage to having more than long 

diagonal dimples to

constrain drumming.  To X across isn't wise either as drumming can focus 

stress at the center of the X and make cracking more likely at center of X.

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

ashontz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 So do the beads really need to be along the edge, or would an X pattern in the center of the large panel be sufficient, kind of like on the side of a WWII Jeep fuel can?

 larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:

> Hi John,

> Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge.  This type of weld is 

> inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the 

> sides.  This is what puts a focus on

> bending and stress at the edge weld.  If you turn the ends around flange 

> inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving 

> 3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be 

> easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending.  Putting 

> indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming

> and flexure.

> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif

>

> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

>

> John Short wrote:

>

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tanks

Thanks. I'm doing flange out edge welds. I welded the long flange so far. I guess I'll go back and try to put a bead along the edge.

 	  larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: 	
		  Hi Andy,

If you were to retain the turned-out edge-weld, then the bead parallel 

with the weld would be an advantage.  This would keep stresses from 

concentrating

at the center of each straight section edge weld.  If the welds were 

done flange in, there is little advantage to having more than long 

diagonal dimples to

constrain drumming.  To X across isn't wise either as drumming can focus 

stress at the center of the X and make cracking more likely at center of X.

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

ashontz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 So do the beads really need to be along the edge, or would an X pattern in the center of the large panel be sufficient, kind of like on the side of a WWII Jeep fuel can?

 larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:

> Hi John,

> Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge.  This type of weld is 

> inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the 

> sides.  This is what puts a focus on

> bending and stress at the edge weld.  If you turn the ends around flange 

> inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving 

> 3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be 

> easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending.  Putting 

> indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming

> and flexure.

> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif

>

> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

>

> John Short wrote:

>

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel tanks

I found putting the beads in before welding to be much easier.  Also found it best to tack weld the entire seam around the whole tank, ends and length before welding the tank closed. YMMV

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tanks

I was debating which way to go on that, bead first or after that fact, or not bead at all. Seems to be good reasons for beading so I'll do that. Right now I have a practice tank half constructed. I'll probably finish this one, see what I can learn from it, then make the two real one's after that. 



 	  Ron Lendon wrote: 	
		  I found putting the beads in before welding to be much easier.  Also found it best to tack weld the entire seam around the whole tank, ends and length before welding the tank closed. YMMV

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