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Trike Main gear sockets
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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets before

you bonded the top on.

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Hi! Craig.

To do the sockets and bracing webs is a pure pain in the neck anyway so

with the top on is doubly awkward. However you need to make lots of

effort to support the lower fuselage half in the manner to which it

should be for dimensional width and alignment.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG



--

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Trike Main gear sockets

Craig,



Before seems to me to be the only way to go. Thats what I did at

FlightCrafters. Just make sure your cradle is solid.

_________________
Ira N224XS

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

I was one. I installed the entire undercarriage once the cockpit module was fitted, and discarded the trestles the fuselage was sitting on.

  

 Karl

  

 

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 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Europa-List: Trike Main gear sockets

 From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:15:30 +0200

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "raggi6771" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 

 Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets before

 you bonded the top on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Visit - www.Eur=============

EuropaXSA276(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Mine was about 40 hours of work with the top NOT bonded on! I cant imagine  attempting such a lay-up with the top on. I originally called Europa about this.  Andy said so long as you have a cradle with very good support there should be no  problem. 

 Lots of photos on this chapter in my little area of Europa Owners.

 Brian Skelly

 www.europaowners.org/BrianS





Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

m.grass(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Craig,



My web took some 80h to complete without thhe top on. I can not imagine how 

peope do this with the top and no frequent vistits to the chiropractor.



Regards



Michael Grass



A266, 914, Woodcomp prop,



---

rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

We cuss a lot.

Best regards,



Rob Housman

Irvine, CA 

Europa XS Tri-Gear

A070

Airframe complete



--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

raggi6771 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Just curious, how many of you fitted the main gear leg sockets before

 you bonded the top on.

 


	


Once the cockpit module is bonded in the front part of the tub is very 

stiff. It's worth clecoing the top on to maintain the straightness of 

the aft half but it makes a lot of sense to leave the top off when 

working in the tub. Makes it possible to do many of the jobs properly, 

like setting up and adjusting the elevator travel and trim tab 

connection, almost impossible with the top on!

Graham

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Thanks all for your input, as my cradle  supports at 4 points, and it is nice and clear of the socket site I will proceed  with the top off.

  

 craig

 [quote]   --

m.grass(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Hi Rob,



The complaint I have is to myself that I do not find the time to do more

building. I enjoy time spend on my plane. The point I tried to make is that

the builder spend quite some time on the web for the main gear sockets.

Even without the top on you spend a lot time bending over.

Building should be fun. It is more fun if you work smart and try to have as

easy access as possible. To me, time spend building is therapy. What you

don't want is therapy after time spend building so work smart and enjoy the

quality time spend with your project.



What I did, I used bondo and stuck 5 reference points to the garage floor. 3

along the centerline of the fuselage. One in the front, one in the center of

the main gear legs and one in the center under the fin. all lined up and on

the exact same height and in level along a line.



Then I bonded with bondo the endpoints of the main gear legs to the floor.

Again made sure with Pythagoras help that it was square to the center line 

and on the same

level.



After that I rolled my fuselage cradle over those points and used M12

threaded rod as a height adjustment to level the fuselage over my 3

reference points along the center line and clamped the main gear legs into

position.



This kept the fuselage the whole time igid and secured in place.



I kept this setup in place till the top fuselage was bonded on. Nothing

moved and all is plum, squared and level.



Regards

Michael Grass

A266 Trigear, Detroit



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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Craig,

  

 I don't know what your plans are regarding painting, but now is a good time to paint the inverted fuselage half, after you have 

 finished the sockets etc. It is ten times easier than waiting for completion. But if someone else is going to do the paint job

 then just forget my suggestion. Also, Neville had suggested to re-inforce the exterior area aroundthe sockets with a 

 multiple layer of bid. I assumed that maybe an early Europa had developed cracks in the skin from hard landings.

  

 Karl

  

 



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 [quote]  From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Trike Main gear sockets

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:14:15 +1000



  Thanks all for your input, as my cradle supports at 4 points, and it is nice and clear of the socket site I will proceed with the top off.

  

 craig

 [quote] --

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Yes i plan on  getting it painted professionally, so it would be my problem, i will look at the  skin layups though

  

 thanks

  

 craig

 [quote]   --

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Michael,

Any thoughts (or measurements) as to how the tracking changes once the 

weight of the aircraft is placed on the legs (that have been set-up to zero 

toe-in/toe-out)?



Duncan McF.

---

m.grass(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Duncan,



I can not give you any ideas how the tracking will change once the plane is 

loaded. I believe based on the geometric setup, the gear will flex out 

(getting wider) and will toe in. I am not sure yet how I will be able to 

measure it but definatly will try once the plane is loaded but this will 

still take quite some time. This summer I hope I get the wings closed and 

all liftpins, crossbar and the flap drive tube in.



Regards



Michael Grass

A266 Trigear Detroit

---

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Hi Michael



"I am not sure yet how I will be able to measure it but definitely will

try once the plane is loaded"



A good way to measure is put a straight edge against the front or back of

both tires, and measure the angle of rims to that. You need to make or

borrow a set of greased plates to accurate measure though. Lets say you

had a bit of toe in, and rolled the plane forward, the wheels will want to

come together and will twist and give you a bit more toe in, roll

backwards and the reverse will happen. Setting wheels on greased plates,

just unweight, then weight plane a little a few times and you can see that

the tires are happy not stressing the gear legs. Just use a little TRIG to

figure out angles.



As a matter of fact, why don't you bring stuff to next Europa meet, and

measure tri gears with no one in plane, then load 2 people inside plane

and 1 person on each wing root and see where those planes come in at. An

added bonus for those who insist on flying an "unconventional gear"

aircraft, would be to not only measure light and heavy toe in/out and

camber, but once the "sweet" aircraft are discovered that don't eat up

tires and wear them even, measure those aircraft with wheels off the

ground so future "unconventional gear" builders or retrofitters can tweak

things in their favor.



I changed out welded steel axles on my 1948 Cessna 170 ragwing for solid

aluminium ski axles. I could not obtain any old part number shims, so I

just TRIGed what I needed, then wandered through the FBOs wheel shim stock

and picked what was close to what was needed, and hand lapped to exact

what I needed. Worked perfect first time. This was after 3 tries, 1 by IA

who changed axles, and 2 by FBO who was not too swift at TRIG. Handling of

a traditional taildragger with toe in is a real challenge!



BTW has nothing to do with toe in or out, but I used the same straight

edge I used to TRIG my C-170 wheel alignment to make sure my undercarriage

mounting frame had my main monowheel tracking straight. I just offered it

up to brake rotor and made sure the offset was the same at the wheel as it

was at the aft fuse. 



A straight ladder and carpenters square should work, I used 4 old saw

blades for grease plates I had laying around, just set the teeth to 1 side

so as not to bind.



Ron Parigoris

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Hi! Michael

IMHO there has been insufficient attention paid to this question of

loaded toe in. G-PTAG is too heavy on tyre wear and when winched

backwards up the trailer ramps the reverse toe is really excessive. I

last used washing up soap on the ramps which shows the tyre scrubbing

instead of deforming.

It almost calls for a control system at the top of the gear legs to be

able to "vernier" the toe setting?

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG



--

Gary.Leinberger(at)miller
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

I spent a great deal of time trying to engineer a vernier type setting

for adjusting the toe in - but after discussing it with several people

was told it works out - normally - my fear is when I do it I may not get

it just right and have tracking problems - maybe the way to adjust it is

to use creative landings - a friend of mine (to be un-named) managed to

bend his - of course this would only work in one direction -  - 



Oin the interest of getting this thing done prior to receiving my first

social security check I am going to go with the manueal and measure

about fifty times - 

Gary Leinberger 

A237 

Slow and Unsteady  



--

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Gary,

  

 I think you are right, but then every Europa is a little different. I followed the manual very carefully, and have not experienced any real problems, not with tracking anyway. The tire wear is on the outer edge, and when the profile has worn off I reverse the tires to wear the other side. I may do this a couple more times and in theory the tires will actually last longer than with symmetric wear.

 The  original tires didn't last very long as the rubber was much softer and there is no steel re-enforcement. I now have Michelins.

  

 Karl



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[quote] Subject: RE: Trike Main gear sockets

 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:03:50 -0400

 From: Gary.Leinberger(at)millersville.edu

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Gary Leinberger" <Gary.Leinberger(at)millersville.edu>

 

 I spent a great deal of time trying to engineer a vernier type setting

 for adjusting the toe in - but after discussing it with several people

 was told it works out - normally - my fear is when I do it I may not get

 it just right and have tracking problems - maybe the way to adjust it is

 to use creative landings - a friend of mine (to be un-named) managed to

 bend his - of course this would only work in one direction -  - 

 

 Oin the interest of getting this thing done prior to receiving my first

 social security check I am going to go with the manueal and measure

 about fifty times - 

 

 

 Gary Leinberger 

 A237 

 Slow and Unsteady 

 

 --

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Michael,

I was curious because tire wear on the trigear seems to be quite high.

If the tracking changes greatly under load it would suggest that setting up 

initially with some compensatory toe-in/out would be beneficial.

No good to you by then!



Reds.,

Duncan.

---

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: Trike Main gear sockets

Hi! Duncan ....I can confirm that ! I requested some assistance about 7

years ago none was forthcoming but I wasn't brave enough to do my own

thing, so now I'm keeping the tyre company afloat ! However my gut

feeling is that the toe in doesn't change but the legs spring outwards.

This means that on touch down the oustide of the tyres take the

"accelerating wheel speed up" this results in outside tyre wear being

far greater than the inside and coupled with toe in wear on the outside

it indicates that probably the angle of the legs could have spread the

wear better. Once set it means changing the tyres round at 50% wear.

Regards

Bob Harrison 



--

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