Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - AFS Systems .... and others

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

AFS Systems .... and others
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

John W. Cox wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		                     

This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir  or Dewey Conroy of Pacific Coast Avionics.  They are probably both taking all kinds of orders and will address this after returning.  Many inquiring minds want to know exactly these questions.   

    

I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely mounted and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with the Garmin G900X national debt decision.  I am impressed with Robin’s purchase but it is too rich for my blood.  Synthetic Vision, HITS, Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to go IFR.  Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great start.   

    

John   

    

 	
 OK, while we're on the subject of the stuff panels are made of, does anyone have any comments on the Odessey???

 

 http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html

 

 I'm looking at that for my panel.  I spent a lot of time looking at it at Sun-N-Fun.  Tell me why you think it's a good or bad purchase!!!

 Linn

     [quote][b]

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Linn,  

There has been a lot of discussion on the list of how many different EFIS systems this category can support before the industry consolidates leaving some panels without product innovation or support including replacement parts. I know nothing about Odyssey and their backing (and do not want to disparage them) but It does seem that Dynon & GRT on the (relatively) lower end of the price spectrum continue to develop & improve their already impressive & tested products. When one has spent so much time & effort on your aircraft it would be a shame to be stuck with a white elephant panel. Imagine having placed dual BMA EFIS One’s in your plane because of all the reported features. When you eventually do offer your plane for sale the panel MAY eliminate many potential buyers. I look at a lot of RV-6/7/8’s with amazing construction & beautiful paint then I see their panel and I think… yeeeeh… never mind.  

I don’t know the ultimate difference in pricing between the Odyssey, Dynon & GRT offerings but they can’t be THAT far apart when viewed in your overall -10 budget. I always say an aircraft is the airframe design, engine/prop & avionics. I think we all agree you have made an outstanding airframe selection, any of the approved engines are an excellent choice for the -10, all that is left is your panel.   

   

Robin  

RV-4               Sold  

RV-6A            400 Hours  

RV-10             Sooner or Later, Probably Later  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters

 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:42 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AFS Systems .... and others  

  

  

   

John W. Cox wrote:

 

   

This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir  or Dewey Conroy of Pacific Coast Avionics.  They are probably both taking all kinds of orders and will address this after returning.  Many inquiring minds want to know exactly these questions.  

   

I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely mounted and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with the Garmin G900X national debt decision.  I am impressed with Robin’s purchase but it is too rich for my blood.  Synthetic Vision, HITS, Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to go IFR.  Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great start.  

   

John  

   

OK, while we're on the subject of the stuff panels are made of, does anyone have any comments on the Odessey???

 

 http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html

 

 I'm looking at that for my panel.  I spent a lot of time looking at it at Sun-N-Fun.  Tell me why you think it's a good or bad purchase!!!

 Linn   	  Quote: 	
		    	
http://www.matronic           - MATRONICS available via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com===================[/b]http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [b]

randy(at)romeolima.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Robin,

  

 You raise an important consideration and one I gave serious  weight to myself in choosing an EFIS supplier. Personally though I think Dynon  and AFS have the greatest potential for longest term survival. Dynon because of  their market share due to being first to market and having the lowest price  points. Regarding AFS, you may not be aware that they  have an OEM relationship with Bendix/King Honeywell (the KFD 840 Primary  Flight Display), and also is the exclusive supplier of EFIS systems for the  Glasair TWT Sportsman program. This provides diversification and funding for  additional development and support resources that benefit those of us with AFS  branded products. As an AFS owner I am more familiar with their situation than  GRT, I hear great things from owners of their products also, just didn't know if  any of this was widely known.

  

 I agree with those who think this market will likely  experience some consolidation as it matures, and that those still choosing their  avionics should consider this aspect as well.

  

 Randy Lervold

 RV-3B, www.rv3works.com

 RV-8 www.rv-8.com

  

 [quote]   ---

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

I do also think the market has to experience some consolidation before too long.  Even the certified market probably will.  After walking through the hangars at Sun-N-Fun and seeing the amazing number of offerings, I started realizing that this is inevitable.  I agree that Dynon and AFS will very likely be around long term with their EFIS products, as will TruTrak with their auto pilot (and possibly their EFIS).  MGL is hard to judge because of their limited exposure in the US to date.  Of the certified products, Garmin is solid.  While other companies like OP, Chelton, L3, Avidyne, etc have fantastic offerings, how many can the market truly support?  Aspen avionics appears to be a certified offering in the lower end of price points, so it will be interesting to see how they do.  Marketing and customer service will determine this.  So far I have had nothing but good customer service from Dynon, and have heard the same for GRT.  I have heard great things from AFS, but they are still fairly new to the EFIS market.  Their service on their other products has had very good reports.  BMA, on the other hand, I have yet to hear a very good report about.  They must be selling something, though, because they still are out there.



No offense meant to the companies I have failed to mention, as I know there are a lot of others out there.

do not archive



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 



On Apr 15, 2008, at 1:18 AM, Randy Lervold wrote:[quote]Robin,

 

You raise an important consideration and one I gave serious weight to myself in choosing an EFIS supplier. Personally though I think Dynon and AFS have the greatest potential for longest term survival. Dynon because of their market share due to being first to market and having the lowest price points. Regarding AFS, you may not be aware that they have an OEM relationship with Bendix/King Honeywell (the KFD 840 Primary Flight Display), and also is the exclusive supplier of EFIS systems for the Glasair TWT Sportsman program. This provides diversification and funding for additional development and support resources that benefit those of us with AFS branded products. As an AFS owner I am more familiar with their situation than GRT, I hear great things from owners of their products also, just didn't know if any of this was widely known.

 

I agree with those who think this market will likely experience some consolidation as it matures, and that those still choosing their avionics should consider this aspect as well.

 

Randy Lervold

RV-3B, www.rv3works.com

RV-8 www.rv-8.com

 

[quote]---

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

When we build our panels and select the instruments/vendors that are available we are hoping that these products/companies well survive. None-the-less we are well aware that there will be many changes in the market in just a short time. In my RV-9A I installed a Navaid autopilot, changed to a Trio, was in the planning stage of removing the electric gyros and other round gages looking at EFIS/EMS displays. Now in the RV-10 I have Dynon EFIS/EMS and TruTrak but I’m looking at the Dynon autopilot and I know Trio has a new one to present at Oshkosh. My point is because we can make major panel changes some of us will-and maybe more than once. My advice is to make it as easy as possible to remove and alter the panel, add more wires, etc. I added rudder trim after completion but had already run a 5 wire cable into the tail cone and put the indicator on the panel ‘just in case’ so it was pretty easy to do. But what if it had required 6 wires instead of 5 I had run? Make it as easy as possible to incorporate change.   

Albert Gardner  

Yuma, AZ  

  

   

  

  

    [quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Randy,  

            I forgot to group AFS impressive products in my brief list of solid companies. Like Jessie I apologize if I left a few personal favorites out but that just proves the point, too many to list. Again I feel we are very lucky to have all these options made available to us in just a few short years but it comes at a price. My yet to fly G900X has a fantastic new SVT option so my panel is already outdated and has yet to clear 10’ AGL. I read that the SVT upgrade for Diamond Aircraft products will be $10K. They are obviously certified aircraft with “certified” costs but I have yet to get an answer on what my unit will cost for these improved features.    

   

Robin     

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold

 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:19 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AFS Systems .... and others  

  

  

     

Robin,  

    

   

    

You raise an important consideration and one I gave serious weight to myself in choosing an EFIS supplier. Personally though I think Dynon and AFS have the greatest potential for longest term survival. Dynon because of their market share due to being first to market and having the lowest price points. Regarding AFS, you may not be aware that they have an OEM relationship with Bendix/King Honeywell (the KFD 840 Primary Flight Display), and also is the exclusive supplier of EFIS systems for the Glasair TWT Sportsman program. This provides diversification and funding for additional development and support resources that benefit those of us with AFS branded products. As an AFS owner I am more familiar with their situation than GRT, I hear great things from owners of their products also, just didn't know if any of this was widely known.  

    

   

    

I agree with those who think this market will likely experience some consolidation as it matures, and that those still choosing their avionics should consider this aspect as well.  

    

   

    

Randy Lervold  

    

RV-3B, www.rv3works.com  

    

RV-8 www.rv-8.com  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

This is a great resource to share with the other builders.  Knowing how many wires to run in anticipation of future adaption of emerging technology.  Maybe Stein could make a future edition of Kitplanes Magazine on aircraft wiring tips, techniques and wiring run planning.  Tim has done a lot with his loads and diagrams.  Thanks for the wake up call.  

   

John  

Aurora, OR  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner

 Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:05 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: AFS Systems .... and others  

  

  

         

When we build our panels and select the instruments/vendors that are available we are hoping that these products/companies well survive. None-the-less we are well aware that there will be many changes in the market in just a short time. In my RV-9A I installed a Navaid autopilot, changed to a Trio, was in the planning stage of removing the electric gyros and other round gages looking at EFIS/EMS displays. Now in the RV-10 I have Dynon EFIS/EMS and TruTrak but I’m looking at the Dynon autopilot and I know Trio has a new one to present at Oshkosh. My point is because we can make major panel changes some of us will-and maybe more than once. My advice is to make it as easy as possible to remove and alter the panel, add more wires, etc. I added rudder trim after completion but had already run a 5 wire cable into the tail cone and put the indicator on the panel ‘just in case’ so it was pretty easy to do. But what if it had required 6 wires instead of 5 I had run? Make it as easy as possible to incorporate change.   

Albert Gardner  

Yuma, AZ  

  

   

  

  [quote]  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c  [/b][/b][/b][/b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/b]http://forums.matronics.com[/b]http://www.matronics.com/contribution [b]

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: Re: AFS Systems .... and others

John,

In response to your question. The Odyssey looks very good. MGL has earlier products so they are not exactly new to the game. I agree that some manufacturers will drop out in time and who knows which ones. The one thing I like about them is willingness to incorporate 3rd party devices. They are fine with Trio or TruTrak, and probably can work with any other manufacturer that uses ARINC 429. They can make the Dynon Pitot/AOA work, the AFS holes, and can even accomodate home-made AoA systems. I'll keep an eye on them.



Just like Oshkosh, I found Sun 'n fun overwhelming in the avionics areas. Too many things to absorb. The one thing I have gotten out of it however, is the high prices and arrogance of the Garmin folks.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

In a message dated 4/16/2008 9:18:34 AM Central Daylight Time,  johngoodman(at)earthlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  is the    high prices and arrogance of the Garmin folks 	


 

 Anyone else get the feeling that now since garmin has gone from aviation  background to the general public in car devices...they really don't need  aviation anymore or certainly have an attitude like this?  We're sort of  their test market and highest profit margin per product area, but lowest market  unit area...

  

 P



It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.

  [quote][b]

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Garmin's arrogance has  been evident for years, long before their new found consumer market.   They remind me very much of MS, somewhat deserving of pride, but sadly marred by  it.  

  

 John J

  

 do not  archive



 [quote]         From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:26    AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:    AFS Systems .... and others

   

      In a message dated 4/16/2008 9:18:34 AM Central Daylight Time,    johngoodman(at)earthlink.net writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  is the high prices and      arrogance of the Garmin folks 	


   

   Anyone else get the feeling that now since garmin has gone from aviation    background to the general public in car devices...they really don't need    aviation anymore or certainly have an attitude like this?  We're sort of    their test market and highest profit margin per product area, but lowest    market unit area...

    

   P



         It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL    Money & Finance.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

with the G1000 and G900 I think the Garmin folks are more "we're better  than thou" than thinking we are their test bed. Some company reps get that way,  figure they don't need anyone when they are selling products based on the name  alone.

 Arrogance is from thinking they dont need us as much as they think we need  them.. Sadly I need a 430w to go with my AFS system.. until there is a good  replacement I really dont have much of a choice.. happens when a company buys  their competition (Apollo/UPS)

  

 Pascal

 [quote]   ---

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Pascal's hit the nail on the head!



UPSAT had a great line of products that kept Garmin on their toes and reasonable.



Garmin's taken some of the good things and discarded some of the good things.



If there were only some competition....



--

bhughes(at)qnsi.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

 	  Quote: 	
		     I wonder what the price    will be for this Honeywell unit. The one sitting beside the AFS display.    Garmin needs competition so I hope this product will be     competitively priced. 

    

   https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10052&langId=-1&cursel=item1&identifier=Apex%20Edge%20Series

    

   Bobby

   40116

	


   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Pascal

Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:14 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: AFS Systems ....  and others

 

 with the G1000 and G900 I think the Garmin folks are more "we're better  than thou" than thinking we are their test bed. Some company reps get that way,  figure they don't need anyone when they are selling products based on the name  alone.

 Arrogance is from thinking they dont need us as much as they think we need  them.. Sadly I need a 430w to go with my AFS system.. until there is a good  replacement I really dont have much of a choice.. happens when a company buys  their competition (Apollo/UPS)

  

 Pascal

 [quote]   ---

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Garmin does have competition in the form of Chelton, OP and others. Plus I absolutely consider the lower priced EFIS units competition to Garmin as I strongly considered them before going with the G900X. I agree that Garmin is A LOT like MS and they both seem to be full of themselves however they both make excellent products that tend to be pretty well sorted out when they hit the market place. A thing that is really difficult to do in the aggressive world of software development which at this point is exactly, they both are… software vendors. While I can find fault with MS, I have also been able to pay for my -10 and the balance of my family’s lifestyle almost exclusively using MS software. I can get annoyed with MS but I am also thankful that they are a stable, consistent global company. They may screw you on some product pricing but they don’t Bear Stearns screw you. The same goes for Garmin from my point of view. On my G900X purchase I looked at Dynon, GRT, AFS on the low end and Chelton / OP on the high end specifically and I know I would have been very happy with any of these fine devices but I would have still had to get a transponder, dual radios, audio panel etc (OP excluded) … and when I penciled it out the difference was not that great. In some cases there was no price difference at all. PLEASE cut me some slack here because in this scenario I consider $15K “not that great.” Then adding the potential costs to integrate all these different pieces of equipment from different vendors and learning the nuances of each piece of equipment made the purchase price difference (to me) become almost a push.  The thought of a single fully integrated stable system did have its appeal to me and was probably the overriding factor in my choice. Add the fact that I many want to move up in aircraft class at some point and that there is a very strong possibility that there will be a G900/1000 driving that ship and all of a sudden Garmin made the most sense for my purchase.  

Yes we can bitch about Garmin for many reasons. I plan to be one of the loudest complainers starting in the next few months as we give life to this horse tail size gaggle of wires but for now I am fat, dumb & happy as the unit is paid for, delivered and looks exactly how I sketched it out 10 months ago .  

   

Robin  

   

WARNING, this aircraft is amateur built…  

   

 [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C89FA8.BFD79D40[/img]  

   

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C89FA8.BFD79D40[/img]  

   

[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C89FA8.BFD79D40[/img]  

   

[img]cid:image004.jpg(at)01C89FA8.BFD79D40[/img]

image001.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

55.02 KB

Viewed:

392 Time(s)

image002.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

78.93 KB

Viewed:

367 Time(s)

image003.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

75.82 KB

Viewed:

387 Time(s)

image004.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

74.11 KB

Viewed:

391 Time(s)

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robin Marks

Sent: Wed 4/16/2008 10:04 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: AFS Systems .... and others

Garmin does have competition in the form of Chelton, OP and others. Plus I absolutely consider the lower priced EFIS units competition to Garmin as I strongly considered them before going with the G900X. I agree that Garmin is A LOT like MS and they both seem to be full of themselves however they both make excellent products that tend to be pretty well sorted out when they hit the market place. A thing that is really difficult to do in the aggressive world of software development which at this point is exactly, they both are… software vendors. While I can find fault with MS, I have also been able to pay for my -10 and the balance of my family’s lifestyle almost exclusively using MS software. I can get annoyed with MS but I am also thankful that they are a stable, consistent global company. They may screw you on some product pricing but they don’t Bear Stearns screw you. The same goes for Garmin from my point of view. On my G900X purchase I looked at Dynon, GRT, AFS on the low end and Chelton / OP on the high end specifically and I know I would have been very happy with any of these fine devices but I would have still had to get a transponder, dual radios, audio panel etc (OP excluded) … and when I penciled it out the difference was not that great. In some cases there was no price difference at all. PLEASE cut me some slack here because in this scenario I consider $15K “not that great.” Then adding the potential costs to integrate all these different pieces of equipment from different vendors and learning the nuances of each piece of equipment made the purchase price difference (to me) become almost a push.  The thought of a single fully integrated stable system did have its appeal to me and was probably the overriding factor in my choice. Add the fact that I many want to move up in aircraft class at some point and that there is a very strong possibility that there will be a G900/1000 driving that ship and all of a sudden Garmin made the most sense for my purchase. 

Yes we can bitch about Garmin for many reasons. I plan to be one of the loudest complainers starting in the next few months as we give life to this horse tail size gaggle of wires but for now I am fat, dumb & happy as the unit is paid for, delivered and looks exactly how I sketched it out 10 months ago . 

Robin 

WARNING, this aircraft is amateur built… 

 [img]image001.jpg[/img] 

[img]image002.jpg[/img] 

[img]image003.jpg[/img] 

[img]image004.jpg[/img]

image001.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

55.02 KB

Viewed:

362 Time(s)

image002.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

78.93 KB

Viewed:

367 Time(s)

image003.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

75.82 KB

Viewed:

396 Time(s)

image004.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

74.11 KB

Viewed:

354 Time(s)

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

Robin, your killing us here.

  

 "Warning, this aircraft panel was built by" one of the finest avionics shops in the country.  You have what many of us can just dream about.  As configured, what did it run (in US dollars) to get to this level of coverage.

  

 My question is still out there (Remotely mounted avionics).  Stein gave me a price for my creation and I could by a 1970 Cessna or Piper for that chunk. The market needs a challenger to Garmin on the ability to remotely locate and control "current technology" avionics.  Each of the competitors you mention love to have panel mounted bricks like the ole Motorola, first generation cellphone, that extend 11 inches towards the firewall and then add real weight forward of the CG point.

  

 Do you have any pictures of your remotely mounted dual GPS/Nav/Comm/ILS units?  I would love it if AFS/Chelton/Grand Rapids/Dynon/OP/L3/Avidyne and all of Jesse's forgottens would control the remote Garmin stacks - off the high value real estate like your picture shows.  Technically advanced certified aircraft are all the same layout and supplier - Garmin 1000.  We need some choices here.  It is like the days of being a logger in the Pacific NW circa 1850 or a pipeline worker in Alaska 1970.  Ecks, does anyone shave their legs up here - oh there are few of them.

  

 The price Please....

  

 John C.



 

  From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robin Marks

Sent: Wed 4/16/2008 10:04 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: AFS Systems .... and others

   

Garmin does have competition in the form of Chelton, OP and others. Plus I absolutely consider the lower priced EFIS units competition to Garmin as I strongly considered them before going with the G900X. I agree that Garmin is A LOT like MS and they both seem to be full of themselves however they both make excellent products that tend to be pretty well sorted out when they hit the market place. A thing that is really difficult to do in the aggressive world of software development which at this point is exactly, they both are… software vendors. While I can find fault with MS, I have also been able to pay for my -10 and the balance of my family’s lifestyle almost exclusively using MS software. I can get annoyed with MS but I am also thankful that they are a stable, consistent global company. They may screw you on some product pricing but they don’t Bear Stearns screw you. The same goes for Garmin from my point of view. On my G900X purchase I looked at Dynon, GRT, AFS on the low end and Chelton / OP on the high end specifically and I know I would have been very happy with any of these fine devices but I would have still had to get a transponder, dual radios, audio panel etc (OP excluded) … and when I penciled it out the difference was not that great. In some cases there was no price difference at all. PLEASE cut me some slack here because in this scenario I consider $15K “not that great.” Then adding the potential costs to integrate all these different pieces of equipment from different vendors and learning the nuances of each piece of equipment made the purchase price difference (to me) become almost a push.  The thought of a single fully integrated stable system did have its appeal to me and was probably the overriding factor in my choice. Add the fact that I many want to move up in aircraft class at some point and that there is a very strong possibility that there will be a G900/1000 driving that ship and all of a sudden Garmin made the most sense for my purchase. 

Yes we can bitch about Garmin for many reasons. I plan to be one of the loudest complainers starting in the next few months as we give life to this horse tail size gaggle of wires but for now I am fat, dumb & happy as the unit is paid for, delivered and looks exactly how I sketched it out 10 months ago . 

  

Robin 

  

WARNING, this aircraft is amateur built… 

  

 [img]image001.jpg[/img]

image001.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

55.02 KB

Viewed:

399 Time(s)

image002.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

78.93 KB

Viewed:

368 Time(s)

image003.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

75.82 KB

Viewed:

332 Time(s)

image004.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

74.11 KB

Viewed:

346 Time(s)

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

I think Garmin is more  reminiscent King in the 70s when Gar Min germinated.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Pascal

Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:14 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: AFS Systems ....  and others

 with the G1000 and G900 I think the Garmin folks are more "we're better  than thou" than thinking we are their test bed. Some company reps get that way,  figure they don't need anyone when they are selling products based on the name  alone.

 Arrogance is from thinking they dont need us as much as they think we need  them.. Sadly I need a 430w to go with my AFS system.. until there is a good  replacement I really dont have much of a choice.. happens when a company buys  their competition (Apollo/UPS)

 Pascal

 [quote]   ---

N777TY

Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: AFS Systems .... and others

It'll list for around 17,000



That GPS/Nav/Com will list for about 14,000



 	  bhughes(at)qnsi.net wrote: 	
		     I wonder what the price    will be for this Honeywell unit. The one sitting beside the AFS display.    Garmin needs competition so I hope this product will be     competitively priced. 

    

   https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10052&langId=-1&cursel=item1&identifier=Apex%20Edge%20Series

    

   Bobby

   40116

_________________
RV-7A
N777TY

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

John Cox wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		                     Robin, your killing us here.

    

   "Warning, this aircraft panel was built by" one of the finest avionics shops in the country.  You have what many of us can just dream about.  As configured, what did it run (in US dollars) to get to this level of coverage.

    

   My question is still out there (Remotely mounted avionics).  Stein gave me a price for my creation and I could by a 1970 Cessna or Piper for that chunk. The market needs a challenger to Garmin on the ability to remotely locate and control "current technology" avionics.  Each of the competitors you mention love to have panel mounted bricks like the ole Motorola, first generation cellphone, that extend 11 inches towards the firewall and then add real weight forward of the CG point.

   

 	
 Check out http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html.  Down in the lower left are the radio and pressure altitude, adjusted by the knobs to the right.  Remotely mounted 'black box' radio.

 Linn

 do not archive

 [quote]       

   Do you have any pictures of your remotely mounted dual GPS/Nav/Comm/ILS units?  I would love it if AFS/Chelton/Grand Rapids/Dynon/OP/L3/Avidyne and all of Jesse's forgottens would control the remote Garmin stacks - off the high value real estate like your picture shows.  Technically advanced certified aircraft are all the same layout and supplier - Garmin 1000.  We need some choices here.  It is like the days of being a logger in the Pacific NW circa 1850 or a pipeline worker in Alaska 1970.  Ecks, does anyone shave their legs up here - oh there are few of them.

    

   The price Please....

    

   John C.

   

   

      From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) on behalf of Robin Marks

   Sent: Wed 4/16/2008 10:04 AM

   To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

   Subject: RE: Re: AFS Systems .... and others

   

   

         

Garmin does have competition in the form of Chelton, OP and others. Plus I absolutely consider the lower priced EFIS units competition to Garmin as I strongly considered them before going with the G900X. I agree that Garmin is A LOT like MS and they both seem to be full of themselves however they both make excellent products that tend to be pretty well sorted out when they hit the market place. A thing that is really difficult to do in the aggressive world of software development which at this point is exactly, they both are… software vendors. While I can find fault with MS, I have also been able to pay for my -10 and the balance of my family’s lifestyle almost exclusively using MS software. I can get annoyed with MS but I am also thankful that they are a stable, consistent global company. They may screw you on some product pricing but they don’t Bear Stearns screw you. The same goes for Garmin from my point of view. On my G900X purchase I looked at Dynon, GRT, AFS on the low end and Chelton / OP on the high end specifically and I know I would have been very happy with any of these fine devices but I would have still had to get a transponder, dual radios, audio panel etc (OP excluded) … and when I penciled it out the difference was not that great. In some cases there was no price difference at all. PLEASE cut me some slack here because in this scenario I consider $15K “not that great.” Then adding the potential costs to integrate all these different pieces of equipment from different vendors and learning the nuances of each piece of equipment made the purchase price difference (to me) become almost a push.  The thought of a single fully integrated stable system did have its appeal to me and was probably the overriding factor in my choice. Add the fact that I many want to move up in aircraft class at some point and that there is a very strong possibility that there will be a G900/1000 driving that ship and all of a sudden Garmin made the most sense for my purchase.   

Yes we can bitch about Garmin for many reasons. I plan to be one of the loudest complainers starting in the next few months as we give life to this horse tail size gaggle of wires but for now I am fat, dumb & happy as the unit is paid for, delivered and looks exactly how I sketched it out 10 months ago .   

    

Robin   

    

WARNING, this aircraft is amateur built…   

   

 [b]

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: AFS Systems .... and others

[quote]   Robin:

    

   Fantastic panel.  I am wondering how you and the others    using extended depth panels are planning on handling the stick interference    issue?

    

   My panel is less than an inch deeper than stock and getting    the Infinity stick grips to clear took shortening upper portion of the stick    as much as possible and still mount the grip.

    

   Thanks

    

   Dick Sipp

   RV10 N110DV

   close

[b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum