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Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess

my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess.  What I am

curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the

pattern.  Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light

civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind".  I

mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are

still in the Class D airspace at New Bern!   Little dots on the horizon

kind of thing.  



On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding

range of the runway.  My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty

damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than

on the runway".  Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way.  



As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the

180 approaches.  I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to

the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had

to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER

before.  Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO

MOTOR.  



In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a

very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach".  I never really knew

how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50.  Suddenly the reason

for that became perfectly clear.  I fly my 50 so close to the runway on

downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore!

Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee!  



So I am curious to see the consensus.  How many people stick in close

and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude?  And what are your

thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to

glide ratios? 



Mark Bitterlich

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

Wanna get your attention on downwind? Pull the throttle a the east Jesus box

patten that so many are flying. Then see if you make the runway or not. I'm

betting on NOT! 

If the edge of the runway is not on your wingtip on downwind atleast in the

52 and the 50 to some extent, you are not going to make the runway when you

pull your power.

To answer your question, I fly an approximate 13 degree Approach in the 50

at 160 Kph. With rolling off the perch at the numbers or just slightly past

my aim point on the threshold. That pretty much is how I fly the 52 also but

with a steeper nose down approach. Those barn doors hanging out makes it a

lot easier.

Doc



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jland(at)popeandland.com
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

I had my Examiner during the Commercial check ride say " please no

aerobatics on final" as I maneuvered for the dead stick emergency spot

landing after a spiral descent from 3500 feet overhead.



Basically the CJ comes down like a brick so I acted like a real emergency

and kept it high and used all the drag and maneuvering to hit my spot- got a

bit aggressive on final I guess but made it work.  I've always understood

the idea of hitting the far fence at 30 mph rather than the trees in front

of the aim point at 80 mph.



Bomber patterns don't work in the CJ if the motor quits....

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the

 180 approaches.  I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to

 the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had

 to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER

 before.  Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO

 MOTOR.

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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

I prefer close and high, and always "carrier approach", slipping of what is

too much. Unfortunately there are quite some airfields in Europe where

you're supposed (urged) to fly a circuit like a big Boeing or Airbus and

preferably with a three degree approach on final. So I try to avoid the

bigger airfields as much as possible. 



Jan



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MarkWDavis

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

Flying in Western Kansas and Southeast Colorado, the whole world is pretty 

much an emergency landing field.  Lots of straight roads and level flat 

fields with a handfull of power lines thrown in.  Never the less, in the 

pattern, I''m never more than 1/2 the distance to the wingtip from the 

runway and turn roughly 5 seconds past the intended point of landing less 

the wind (which is always blowing).  If someone else is in the pattern on an 

overly extended pattern, I just tell them I'll be inside them and well out 

of their way.  I've never owned an airplane that had a tendency to actually 

glide when the power was pulled, like T-Craft, etc.  In my Navy days, a T-28 

glided about like a YAK.  The rest, in the event of an engine failure(s), 

were simply returned to the taxpayers with a simple pull of a handle between 

your legs.



Mark Davis

N44YK

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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

Extracted from the Yak 52 manual.

Lift to drag ratio of Yak-52 airplane is K=7 with retracted landing gear and 

K=5.5 with extended. So the descent distance could be calculated as: L = K � 

H.  Where H is airplane's altitude. Recommended descending speed to obtain 

maximum descent distance is 160 kmph without wind, 150 kmph with 5 m/s 

downwind and 170 kmph with 5 m/s headwind.



Headwind 5 m/s decreases descent distance by about 10%.



The most favourable turns are performed at 45 degree bank at 170 kmph air 

speed, the altitude loss is about 110 m within 12.. 15 seconds for such 180 

degree turn.



Dennis



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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

The basic parameter I use that seem to work is at 1000 agl, I can make a  180 turn to a point that is 1/3 the distance in from the wing tip.  That  does not hold true for lower than 1000 of course.  The distance part is  still good.  

  

 I have a rather neat situation here at Eagles Nest.  After TO if I can  get to 200-300 agl a 45 deg turn to the right will get me to a pasture long  enough for a landing.  900 to 1000 and 35 degree right turn will actually  put me on another runway at another airpark.  (Yeah we have private fields  up the Ying-Yang here).  Now that is for a south takeoff.  The  area around my field to north is woods and a rather large lake.  I need 200  feet to clear the woods, so its a water ditching after that.  (The lake is  totally isolated and chuck full of bass, snakes, and gators)   

  

 The point is that you should be familiar the area around your airport and  not only plan for the engine failure in the pattern but the takeoff too.

  

 I live under a MOA.  That has a lot of advantages!  

  

 One.   3 or 4 times a month, after dark, we get the low level  night training gun ships and Blackhawks.  They are always about 200'.�  Our airfield must be a check point cause they'll cross dead center of the  runway.  (We had one land here when his chip light came on).  Also we  seen every kind warbird over our field when they use the ranges to south and  north.  Even B-1Bs!

  

 Two.  Humphy Dittle has their school over at DAB and they fill the  skies and surrounding fields BUT THEY DON'T EVER COME INTO THE MOA.

  

 God I love this place.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

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petervs(at)knology.net
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

I like to be able to spit on the runway from downwind!



Squatch



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ChangDriver

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 266

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change

Ah yes, the old Boeing pattern in the spam can.  I instructed some at LNA in Florida where there were many students.  I've seen students bust PBI airspace about 3 miles away in the "pattern".  I once saw a 152 do a 360 for "spacing" behind a twin.  Best thing an instructor can do is pull power in downwind and make em try to get to the runway.  It is a lesson they never forget.  However, too many instructors are looking for the next job and really don't care as they are there building time not building better pilots.



I moved here (NC) and went flying with a low time CAP guy at RDU.  We were give a long straight in approach by the controller.  He flew a perfect final approach - for an airliner.  Under us were woods, rock quarries, etc.  I asked him why he flew the approach like he did.  His answer was he had the glide slope nailed.  Nice, but why do you need to do that in a 182?  No answer.   Heck, we could have stayed at 1000 feet AGL all the way to the threshold and still landed on the runway.



Also remember, stay close and be very aware of where the wind is coming from as it may push you out of range (or too close)  if not properly corrected for.



Craig

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