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Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

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planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

I had some shaking/vibrating ( wings off ) when I started my plane

last weekend...



 I'm running two blades on my IVO...Last year it seemed to run

just fine...



  Didn't like the shaking/vibration , so I ordered the Balance Master

 for Props....( Mercury inside )



 Anybody using it..... Like it...?



 I asked them if I'm not satisfied will they take it back...



 They said 100 day money back ....



                      Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

. 



Hi Bob,   Yeah, Mercury shouldn't be making "ANY" sound....

I've also heard of Ball bearings in oil...

.

Here's the address just in case anybody's interested....

It's an OLD ad.....Wrong prices....

http://www.balancemasters.com/ultralightarticle.html

.

.

.

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Last edited by planecrazzzy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

Mike, I installed one of those gadgets last year to help reduce the  

vibes on my plane.

I figured it wouldn't harm anything.  It did reduce symptoms some.   

Mine are in the category

of what John Hauck calls rum rum, low freq, in and out resonance.



No doubt you will get (good) advice to do another prop balance, as  

should I.



If you turn the device in rotation you can hear what sounds like  

pellets moving inside.

Sure doesn't sound like mercury but I could be wrong.

Anyone else with experience or knowledge with this?

BB



On 28, Apr 2008, at 7:47 PM, planecrazzzy wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>



 I had some shaking/vibrating ( wings off ) when I started my plane

 last weekend...



  I'm running two blades on my IVO...Last year it seemed to run

 just fine...



   Didn't like the shaking/vibration , so I ordered the Balance Master

  for Props....( Mercury inside )



  Anybody using it..... Like it...?



  I asked them if I'm not satisfied will they take it back...



  They said 100 day money back ....



                       Gotta Fly...

 Mike & "Jaz" in MN

 .

 .



 --------

 .

 .

 .

 .

 .

 Do Not Archive





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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179936#179936





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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

In a message dated 4/28/2008 6:50:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

I'm    running two blades on my IVO...Last year it seemed to run

just    fine...



  Didn't like the shaking/vibration , so I ordered the    Balance Master

for Props....( Mercury inside    )        	
                     Mike,

       

        I had a similar     experience with my 2- blade IVO.  I never figured it out until I did a  de-carbon.  When I took off my prop  the little ear on the cam of one  blade had broken off and the pitch on that blade was different than the good  blade.  You might want to check that out if you havent. I ordered a new  blade with the knurled plates and have had no more problems.

  

  

                  Ed    (FF#  62 )



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

Bob,

Mine also sounds like pellets inside instead of mercury.  I took it off a 

while back to see if there was a differance and before I got to the runway I 

turned around and went back to the hanger to put it back on.



Denny Rowe, Mk-3, 2SI 690L-70, Powerfin F model three blade.

do not archive

---

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

Here's a copy & paste from the guy talking about the oil & ball bearing method...

.

.

The idea of dynamic (fluid) balancing had been used as far back as 1908 by German scientists and improved by Americans in the early 1940's using steel ball-bearings in tubes filled with oil. So Chris, being an amateur-inventor familiar with such things, took the idea one step further by creating the Balance Master using liquid Mercury. It is now another of his 15 widely-diversified patented inventions.



.

.

.

Gotta Fly...

.

.

.

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

planecrazzzy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Here's a copy & paste from the guy talking about the oil & ball bearing method...

 .

 .

 The idea of dynamic (fluid) balancing had been used as far back as 1908 by German scientists and improved by Americans in the early 1940's using steel ball-bearings in tubes filled with oil. So Chris, being an amateur-inventor familiar with such things, took the idea one step further by creating the Balance Master using liquid Mercury. It is now another of his 15 widely-diversified patented inventions.



 .

 .

 .

 Gotta Fly...

   

Got two of them working on my Firefly.  Prop Balancer and also the 
	


flywheel pulley Engine Balancer at the other end.  Seems to be working 

fine for me!  Yes, they are both made with a small amount of mercury in 

sealed tubes.  Don't let the word out about the mercury of I will be 

banned from most places!!  It's right up there with nuclear material in 

todays world of over zealous people.  I've got several pounds of it if 

your interested.



Terry - FireFly #95

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

How much would a pound cost ?



My Uncle used to tear apart the old light switches when we would Demo a house or other buildings...( 40-45 yrs ago ) He had a little jar with quite a

bit of Mercury in it....Man, was it heavy...



                      Gotta Fly...

                                      Mike & "Jaz" in MN

.

.

.

 	  Quote: 	
		   I've got several pounds of it if your interested.



Terry - FireFly #95

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

planecrazzzy wrote: [quote]   [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com> (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)  How much would a pound cost ?  My Uncle used to tear apart the old light switches when we would Demo a house or other buildings...( 40-45 yrs ago ) He had a little jar with quite a bit of Mercury in it....Man, was it heavy...                        Gotta Fly...                                       Mike & "Jaz" in MN

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

 	  planecrazzzy wrote: 	
		  I had some shaking/vibrating ( wings off ) when I started my plane

last weekend...



 I'm running two blades on my IVO...Last year it seemed to run

just fine...



	




Doubt the balance master would help much, never heard of a case where it did help very much.



A much cheaper option is to make sure the blades have the same pitch. This is the trick to a smooth IVO in 2-blades - with the hub bolts at full tightness, the torque rods can be slightly "clamped" and won't move on their own when you're in the region of natural pitch.



You can see this by, say, cranking the pitch adjust in a turn or two from natural pitch and then back it out. You'll likely notice the screw unscrews very easily, which means the cams are stationary while the screw moves through the "play" between the cam and its big groove.



If that's happening, make sure when you're doing the pitch adjust to start, say, overly coarse and only rotate the bolt in the fine direction until the right pitch is achieved. DON"T back it out at that point, lock it down right there.



I ran the IVO in 2 blades for years on my trike with very smooth results as long as I made sure of the above...... in 2-blades it's superb on a fast plane.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

In re mercury -- we used to rub  dimes in  kit --  before it was poisonous. Try it.Not kolb-related; do not archive

On Apr 30, 2008, at 9:54 AM, TK wrote:

[quote]  planecrazzzy wrote: [quote]  [quote]  How much would a pound cost ?  My Uncle used to tear apart the old light switches when we would Demo a house or other buildings...( 40-45 yrs ago ) He had a little jar with quite a bit of Mercury in it....Man, was it heavy...                        Gotta Fly...                                       Mike & "Jaz" in MN

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

lucien wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com> (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)

planecrazzzy wrote:

        	  Quote: 	
		  I had some shaking/vibrating ( wings off ) when I started my plane

last weekend...



 I'm running two blades on my IVO...Last year it seemed to run

just fine...

    	
   



Doubt the balance master would help much, never heard of a case where it did help very much.



A much cheaper option is to make sure the blades have the same pitch. This is the trick to a smooth IVO in 2-blades - with the hub bolts at full tightness, the torque rods can be slightly "clamped" and won't move on their own when you're in the region of natural pitch.



You can see this by, say, cranking the pitch adjust in a turn or two from natural pitch and then back it out. You'll likely notice the screw unscrews very easily, which means the cams are stationary while the screw moves through the "play" between the cam and its big groove.



If that's happening, make sure when you're doing the pitch adjust to start, say, overly coarse and only rotate the bolt in the fine direction until the right pitch is achieved. DON"T back it out at that point, lock it down right there.



I ran the IVO in 2 blades for years on my trike with very smooth results as long as I made sure of the above...... in 2-blades it's superb on a fast plane.....



LS



--------

LS

FS II

  	
 	
 As I said before, I found them to help.  Even Rotax must have some faith in them, they have something similar, a hydro dampener, on their larger two strokers.  Adjusting the pitch on a wood prop is a bit dicey! 

 Yeah, they won't make up for a poorly balanced prop, but will give that final tweak to smooth things out.

 

 Don't condemn that which you haven't tried,

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

 

  

    [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

 	  Quote: 	
		  

s I said before, I found them to help.  Even Rotax must have some faith in them, they have something similar, a hydro dampener, on their larger two strokers.  Adjusting the pitch on a wood prop is a bit dicey! 

 Yeah, they won't make up for a poorly balanced prop, but will give that final tweak to smooth things out.

 

 Don't condemn that which you haven't tried,

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

	




You're quite right that I only have 2nd hand info, so indeed my opinion isn't authoritative on it by any means.



Yes, the 582 has a balancing device on the flywheel similar to the balance master, but you have to remember that's a much higher rpm situation and the imbalances it's used for are generally smaller than a prop spinning at 2500 rpm.



I do, however, have years of 1st hand experience with the IVO running in 2-blades and, in that experience, I havn't found a relatively expensive solution like the balance master thingy to be necessary for smooth operation. Again, the typical problem with the IVO is mismatched pitch on the blades rather than imbalance. IVO does pretty good getting their props balanced out of the box (tho occasionally they mess up). 

The pitch adjustment, however, ain't so grand with the play in the pitch adjust screw and the tendency for the torque rods to sieze slightly in their holes when the hub is tightened down to spec.



So... I'm merely suggesting that before you go out and spend a bunch of money on a balancer, set up the prop correctly FIRST - it's a zero-dollar solution anyway so it's the most sensible place to start.

THEN check the balance THEN try the more expensive solutions.....



Just my experience, worth what you paid for it,



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

At 11:15 AM 5/1/2008, lucien wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Yes, the 582 has a balancing device on the flywheel similar to the balance 

master, but you have to remember that's a much higher rpm situation and 

the imbalances it's used for are generally smaller than a prop spinning at 

2500 rpm.


	


Is the 582's device a radial balancer, or just a harmonic balancer that 

damps out the torsional pulses?  I would think the latter, protecting the 

gearbox.



 	  Quote: 	
		  So... I'm merely suggesting that before you go out and spend a bunch of 

money on a balancer, set up the prop correctly FIRST - it's a zero-dollar 

solution anyway so it's the most sensible place to start.

THEN check the balance THEN try the more expensive solutions.....


	


Agreed.  No point in band-aiding a problem that can be properly fixed.



It should also be remembered that a balancer like the balancemaster can 

only help with radial weight imbalance, which causes motion in the plane of 

the propeller.  If your blade pitch is mismatched, that creates an angular 

vibration or shaft wobble that a radial balancer can do nothing about.



-Dana

--

  Refuse Novocain... Transcend Dental Medication.

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

I had a lot of vibration in my Ivo prop after it had run smooth for 600 hours. When I took it off, I saw that one of the cams had worn where it contacted the groove. I replaced that cam and the vibes disappeared. The worn cam had caused that blade to have a different pitch than the other.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Balance Master ( Prop Balancer)

I think the fact the Wings were off got overlooked too quickly...



I'll bet if I put the wings on & started it , it would be normal....



 Whatever ... The balancer "will" help...

.

.

.

Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

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