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rtdin
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Florida panhandle
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
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Dave Nixon, you went with push rods. That is so neat! Couple of days ago, I was rooting through some old drawings to send some info to Andy. That old design had push rods and they seemed to jump out to me. I could see how a single rod would fit in either the last or next to last lightening holes. They are not temp sensitive or lose tension.
Bob Dingley
Do not archive
**************
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [quote][b]
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
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If you had a piece of aluminum riveted over the hinge, you would probably find it difficult to move the ailerons at all. You would definitely put a permanent crease in the metal and stretch it or shear the rivets if you did manage to get it to move.
When the standard hingeless ailerons are deflected, the skin acting as the hinge takes on a fairly large (on the order of a few inches) radius of curvature. Bending a piece of metal over a piano hinge will put a very small (>1/4") radius in the metal and result in a significant elongation.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
| Quote: |
Interesting, I was wondering about using the hinged aileron with a .016 skin
sandwiched in there to act as some stiffness, but thought maybe that might pull
on the rivets too much. You figure with a gap seal on top, when you deflect the
aileron downwards the gap seal skin has to travel around a larger radius (ever
so slightly anyway) to make the bend. Would that be enough to elongate the rivet
holes or weaken the rivet heads over time?
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_________________
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
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I understand that, so how do these gap seals work?
| bryanmmartin wrote: | If you had a piece of aluminum riveted over the hinge, you would probably find it difficult to move the ailerons at all. You would definitely put a permanent crease in the metal and stretch it or shear the rivets if you did manage to get it to move.
When the standard hingeless ailerons are deflected, the skin acting as the hinge takes on a fairly large (on the order of a few inches) radius of curvature. Bending a piece of metal over a piano hinge will put a very small (>1/4") radius in the metal and result in a significant elongation.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "ashontz" <ashontz>
| Quote: |
Interesting, I was wondering about using the hinged aileron with a .016 skin
sandwiched in there to act as some stiffness, but thought maybe that might pull
on the rivets too much. You figure with a gap seal on top, when you deflect the
aileron downwards the gap seal skin has to travel around a larger radius (ever
so slightly anyway) to make the bend. Would that be enough to elongate the rivet
holes or weaken the rivet heads over time?
|
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
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The gap seals are strips of plastic attached to the wing ahead of the
hinge on the bottom of the wing. They span the gap formed by the hinge
line. The higher pressure on the bottom of the wing holds the strip
against the surface to smooth the airflow and prevent leakage through
the gap. The trailing edge of the strip is free to slide over the
aileron as it moves.
See: http://www.knots2u.com/cessna-gs.htm for example.
On May 13, 2008, at 9:05 PM, ashontz wrote:
| Quote: |
I understand that, so how do these gap seals work?
|
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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Aerolitellc(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
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A wing should be a smooth lifting surface, with no leakage between the high-pressure bottom side and the low pressure upper side.
A Piper's wing is neither smooth nor free from leaks. Stopping the leakage of air across the wing is easy. All you have to do is put gap seals between the wing and the flaps and between the wing and the ailerons. This is simple and highly cost effective. Sealing these gaps will gain you approximately five to six M.P.H. in cruise speed and fifty feet per minute in rate of climb. You get an added bonus of lower stall speed and much greater aileron effectiveness.
Tests show they deliver several miles per hour more performance than the AMR&D ones.
The Laminar Flow Systems aileron gap seals performance is the same as the LoPresti and K2U ones… but the price is lower and they have less tendency to ice up!
[/url]
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? [url=http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001]Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
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planes_by_ken(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
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Most gap seals are only attached to 1 surface and rub over the other
(except tape or fabric seals)
Ken
Ron Lendon wrote:
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