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Setting the wing incidence

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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

I am embarking upon the wing incidence operation with some trepidation.  I have armed myself with a digital level.  

   

A couple of perhaps dumb questions  

<![if !supportLists]>1.       <![endif]> The rear lift pin is vertical.  If this is correct do you have to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out?  

<![if !supportLists]>2.       <![endif]>One of my front pins won’t go in all the way – still has about 4 threads showing.  The other one goes in all the way.  How do I get a grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver?  

   

Does anyone have any “gotchas” that they can warn me about?  

   

Thanks  

   

Will  

     

  Checked by AVG.

 04-May-08 12:31

    [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Hi! William  

Please don’t consider me an authority but in the absence of any one else replying ……..!  

I’m bemused by question 1?  

Do you mean the rear lift pin locking pip pin is vertical?  

If so, you get it out by pulling it vertically upwards and you will need to cut a hole eventually through the wing to fuselage fillet fairings so at this stage you will need to relieve it’s clearance through the inboard upper surface of the wing closeout which when the fairings have been fitted you may well need to open out . The pip pin travels vertically or parallel to the rib. The lift pin is “normal” to the root closeout rib.  

2. Have you used a no 3 plug thread tap all the way into the hole ? because it sounds to me the threads aren’t tapped deep enough? Otherwise try freezing the pin it may shrink it a “nats”.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison G-PTAG  

   

--

hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Will,

<![if !supportLists]>  

 >  1.        <![endif]> The  rear lift pin is vertical.  If this is correct do you have to cut out a  slot in the root rib to get it in an out? 

  

 I think  your wording here may be a little confusing.  The actual lift pin is  horizontal (actually parallel to the main wing pins when viewed horizontally)  and the hole through it which accommodates the Pip Pin locking pin is  vertical.  To enable insertion and removal of the Pip Pin, a hole needs to  be cut through the upper wing surface/fairing.

 <![if !supportLists]> 

  > 2.        <![endif]>One  of my front pins won’t go in all the way – still has about 4 threads  showing.  The other one goes in all the way.  How do I get a grip of  the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or cutting a  slot in the top for a screw driver? 

  

 In my  opinion, if the threads on the pins and in the holes are clean and dry, you  should be able to screw the pins in fully by  hand. 

  

 This is  what I would try:-

          Swap    the pins from one wing to the other to determine if it is the pin or hole at    fault.



   
       If the pin screws fully into the    other wing, then it is the hole at fault so ensure the tap will easily screw    fully into the hole and that the thread in the hole contains no debris from    the tapping    operation.



   
 The    pin may have been dropped or something may have dropped on it and damaged the    thread.  If so, in the absence of having the proper die to restore the    thread, drill and tap a hole through a 1/4" piece of flat steel.  Using a    vice with "soft jaws"*, clamp the pin tightly in the vice and screw the 1/4"    piece of steel down over the thread.  This will allow you enough leverage    to overcome a slight deformation of the thread on the pin and will hopefully    restore the thread to enable it to be screwed back easily into the    wing.  

 * "Soft  Jaws"  eg, two pieces of 1.5" X 1.5" aluminium angle placed into the jaws  of the vice to prevent damage to the part being  held.

  

 Cheers

 Kingsley in Oz

    [quote][b]

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Ah I see yes  -  I meant the pip pin not the lift pin.  So you do have to cut a slot out of the closeout rib.  

   

it sounds as though hole will have to tapped out a little.  

   

Thanks  

   

Will  

   

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison

 Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 17:38

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Setting the wing incidence  

  

  

   

Hi! William  

Please don’t consider me an authority but in the absence of any one else replying ……..!  

I’m bemused by question 1?  

Do you mean the rear lift pin locking pip pin is vertical?  

If so, you get it out by pulling it vertically upwards and you will need to cut a hole eventually through the wing to fuselage fillet fairings so at this stage you will need to relieve it’s clearance through the inboard upper surface of the wing closeout which when the fairings have been fitted you may well need to open out . The pip pin travels vertically or parallel to the rib. The lift pin is “normal” to the root closeout rib.  

2. Have you used a no 3 plug thread tap all the way into the hole ? because it sounds to me the threads aren’t tapped deep enough? Otherwise try freezing the pin it may shrink it a “nats”.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison G-PTAG  

   

--

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Yes sorry not engaging brain before writing.  Pip pin vertical.  

   

Thanks  

   

And thanks  

   

will  

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst

 Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 18:52

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Setting the wing incidence  

  

  

     

Will,  

    

   

    

 	  Quote: 	
		    1.        The rear lift pin is vertical.  If this is correct do you have to cut out a slot in the root rib to get it in an out?   

    
	


   

    

I think your wording here may be a little confusing.  The actual lift pin is horizontal (actually parallel to the main wing pins when viewed horizontally) and the hole through it which accommodates the Pip Pin locking pin is vertical.  To enable insertion and removal of the Pip Pin, a hole needs to be cut through the upper wing surface/fairing.  

    

   

    

 > 2.       One of my front pins won’t go in all the way – still has about 4 threads showing.  The other one goes in all the way.  How do I get a grip of the damn thing to screw it in short of taking the mole grips to it or cutting a slot in the top for a screw driver?   

    

   

    

In my opinion, if the threads on the pins and in the holes are clean and dry, you should be able to screw the pins in fully by hand.   

    

   

    

This is what I would try:-  

    Swap the pins from one wing to the other to determine if      it is the pin or hole at fault.  
 If the pin screws fully into the other wing, then it is      the hole at fault so ensure the tap will easily screw fully into the hole      and that the thread in the hole contains no debris from the tapping      operation.  
The pin may have been dropped or something may      have dropped on it and damaged the thread.  If so, in the absence of      having the proper die to restore the thread, drill and tap a hole through      a 1/4" piece of flat steel.  Using a vice with "soft      jaws"*, clamp the pin tightly in the vice and screw the 1/4"      piece of steel down over the thread.  This will allow you enough      leverage to overcome a slight deformation of the thread on the pin and      will hopefully restore the thread to enable it to be screwed back easily      into the wing.     

   

    

* "Soft Jaws" eg, two pieces of 1.5" X 1.5" aluminium angle placed into the jaws of the vice to prevent damage to the part being held.  

    

   

    

Cheers  

    

Kingsley in Oz  

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No virus found in this incoming message.

 Checked by AVG.

 04-May-08 12:31  

     

  Checked by AVG.

 06-May-08 17:17

    [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

No! William ….NO SLOT OUT OF ANY RIB, PLEASE.  Just a scallop  out of the close out air upper surface. The Rib is one of the most stressed items in the wing do not encroach into it.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison.  

   

--

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Ok thanks  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison

 Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 16:13

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Setting the wing incidence  

No! William ….NO SLOT OUT OF ANY RIB, PLEASE.  Just a scallop  out of the close out air upper surface. The Rib is one of the most stressed items in the wing do not encroach into it.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison.  

--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

He's right Willaim.!

When you set the incidence of the second wing, check the incidence at 

the outer end of the flap on the first, then match the incidence of the 

second wing at the same point to that. The incidence at the root doesn't 

affect roll much but further out on the wing it does! That way you 

compensate for any mismatch in the twist of the two wings.

Graham



William Daniell wrote:

[quote] Ok thanks

 

  

 

 *From:* owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert C 

 Harrison

 *Sent:* Wednesday, May 07, 2008 16:13

 *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* RE: Setting the wing incidence

 

  

 

 No! William ….NO SLOT OUT OF ANY RIB, PLEASE.  Just a scallop  out of 

 the close out air upper surface. The Rib is one of the most stressed 

 items in the wing do not encroach into it.

 

 Regards

 

 Bob Harrison.

 

  

 

 --

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

On Wednesday, May 7, 2008, at 14:12 US/Pacific, Robert C Harrison wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   No! William ….NO SLOT OUT OF ANY RIB, PLEASE. Just a scallop  out of 

 the close out air upper surface. The Rib is one of the most stressed 

 items in the wing do not encroach into it.


	


Bob,



What pray tell is the "close out air upper surface"?    Is there a 

slight typo in your post?



Are you saying that a "scallop" out of the top flange of the root rib 

is OK?  I certainly hope so, as one was required on both my wings for 

me to insert the pip pins. I recognise that this is a highly stressed 

portion of a key component.



Fred



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

believed to be clean.

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Hi! Fred  

I was trying to have William NOT remove any part of the RIB . The wing skin likely extends beyond what you call the RIB FLANGE. The skin is what  I call “fair game” for shaping . Better put up with some difficult access now and extend the hole  later when things are more permanent.  

Regards  

Bob H    

   

--

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Thanks sounds good advice thanks

Will



--

bdanbish(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Hi William,



Sorry for the delay in posting but I haven't been able to post for a while due to subscription issues. I have those ironed out now and have some thoughts. I did a post some time ago that might help. Click below, or do a search on WING with danbish as the author.



http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?t=3480&highlight=wing



There are a few photos that might help at:



http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=FittingWings&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Anyway, this is what worked for me but I'm not flyin' yet so I might just find I fly around in circles!  



Happy Building!

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Dan

with respect I lifted the following out of your website, I would like to 

add that these Tufnol supports are equally vital for easy damage free 

rigging. Especially monowheels. You can't stop the wing sliding 

backwards. I have given Andy earache more than once for leaving this out 

of the manual, ( he was intensely pressurized at the time)



Only other useful remark would be that the incidence at the tip of the 

flaps is more important than the incidence at the wing root.



Graham



danbish wrote:

First, I'm assuming that you have been able to get the wings in the 

fuselage with the pins full through both port & starboard sides. If you 

haven't already, make up guides out of tufnol to support and guide the 

spars/wings into the correct position. This isn't mentioned in the 

manual but is shown in great detail in photos on Bob Borger's album on 

the Europa Owner's gallery. (Thanks Bob for making those available. They 

were invaluable!). There's just no way to keep the wings held in the 

right position throughout the process of setting the incidence without 

these, IMHO.



 	  Quote: 	
		   

First, I'm assuming that you have been able to get the wings in the 
	


fuselage with the pins full through both port & starboard sides. If you 

haven't already, make up guides out of tufnol to support and guide the 

spars/wings into the correct position. This isn't mentioned in the 

manual but is shown in great detail in photos on Bob Borger's album on 

the Europa Owner's gallery. (Thanks Bob for making those available. They 

were invaluable!). There's just no way to keep the wings held in the 

right position throughout the process of setting the incidence without 

these, IMHO.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 There are a few photos that might help at:

 

 http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=FittingWings&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

 

 Anyway, this is what worked for me but I'm not flyin' yet so I might just find I fly around in circles!  

 

 Happy Building!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: Setting the wing incidence

Thanks

Yes I have made up the guides although mine are of ply with facing of soft

aluminum.  My pins do go through all the way albeit a little tight which I

think is not abnormal if I recall earlier discussions.  That is to say I can

get the pip pin in and then I put in the other one which I have made more

pointed to aid aligning the spars and then using the leverage of the long

handle on the right side and with firm pressure it will go through.

Will



--

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